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Brexit

Westminstenders: Dissolved.

952 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/11/2019 19:44

Parliament has formally been dissolved. We are now officially in an election period including purdah and spending limits. Not that all the parties haven't got campaign material out already to bypass the rules, making the rules a complete farce. And the government has made some very dodgy adverts about the fund for towns, 90% of which just happen to be marginals.

The Tory Campaign has got off to an interesting start with a dead cat dog whistle against Grenfell where many well educated people lived (Inc an architect), privately owned their property and just happened to be white. And fast asleep. I'm not sure about you but I don't tend to have huge amounts of 'common sense' when I'm snoring.

Apologies have of course been made. In true Trumpian / Bannon style. But the whistle was blown and made its desired point to its target audience. Expect many more examples before we get to the end of this campaign.

Of course the same day it was made public that the government have blocked the publication of a report into Russian Electoral Interference. Which is in no way connected to the massive amount of donations the Tory Party has been receiving lately and who Boris Johnson hangs out with.

This election is all about breaking 'The Red Wall' and the Tories taking Northern seats. So everyone between Birmingham and Cumbria is going to be particularly fed up by 12th December at people from London coming out with ridiculous stereotypes, and telling them how to vote. We await Corbyn and Johnson adopting flat caps and vowels whilst drinking a pint of bitter or mild.

As usual we've had the candidate selection process throw up a few curve balls including forcing cabinet minister Alun Cairns to resign as Welsh Secretary on the day the tories launch their campaign. Its become very clear from the list of Tory MPs who aren't standing that the party has officially split and 'one nation conservatism' is merely now a slogan Johnson throws around to pretend that the hard right of the party hasn't slung out or forced out all the moderates. On the Labour side we have the usual rows at factions in local parties fighting or being really upset at a London candidate being parachuted in.

Farage isn't standing but the Brexit Party apparently is, despite calls for an electoral pact with the Tories. Whether local parties get the memo from Leave.eu and CCHQ we will find out in time. The LDs, Greens and Plaid seem to be consolidating a Remain pact in some seats but this still splits the vote with Labour which will be a problem in some areas.

Johnson is apparently standing in Uxbridge. This does leave us with the possibility he could yet lose his seat. Swinson's seat is also far from a safe one. Corbyn will likely be safe but Islington did back the LDs as the 1st Party at the Euros with the assistance of some very pissed off Labour members.

Nothing is certain about the next 6 weeks apart from the fact it will throw up some shocks and leave us all shouting at the telly at some point.

OP posts:
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ListeningQuietly · 07/11/2019 15:14

I apologise for my comment which derailed the thread
by being far too brief
(somebody turned up at the door as I was typing)

What I was trying to say
was that the GFA had achieve incredible things in starting to move the 'Troubles' into history
and as a peace treaty which basically held for 20 years it was Fantastic

The Brexit debacle has brought all the old angers and arguments back to the fore for a new generation
for which the Tories alone are to blame

I am of the age group who remembers bombings near my home as a kid in mainland UK
and Gerry Adams' voice being dubbed
and then watching McGuinness and Paisley become genuinely best of friends was wonderful

I am sad that the positive steps taken between 1998 and 2016
were undone by that idiot Cameron and his two Tory successors.

Corbyn was, is, and always will be a back bench bit player.

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 15:15

I can see the difference between an Irish Republican and a British politician.

Whereas i can see the similarities that both terms can encompass a huge variance in reality.

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 15:16

What @ListeningQuietly said.

Emilyontmoor · 07/11/2019 15:16

Sorry too busy to respond 7 or 8 pages back but my posting the piece from the Jewish Chronicle was not to promote its politics but to highlight that there is fear in both the Jewish and Muslim communities (whether they personally have left or right wing political beliefs) that any right minded politician should be doing their best to reassure, instead of tolerating racism or even encouraging it. As an associate of a university that is sometimes affectionately known as the academic world's answer to the Gaza Strip or Mong Kok I am more than well aware that there is a thin line between anti semitism and justifiable criticism of Israel, but that too frequently the two blur. And when you have Jewish politicians like Margaret Hodge and Luciana Berger highlighting an issue then I think you have to take the concerns of the Jewish community seriously . www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/17/antisemitism-labour-party-jeremy-corbyn-margaret-hodge

As I have said before I do actually admire Jeremy Corbyn for always having been a man of principle. If he spoke to the IRA in the 80s to understand their position then that is not necessarily even a bad thing (and I am only here because an anti natal appointment meant I was not throwing up in the bin in Victoria I regularly just made it to from the train, when it blew up and killed someone else - why there are no bins on London stations) but right here right now he should not be tolerating that a community is being subjected to racist abuse.

I have that O'Rourke book somewhere but a memory of some awful stereotyping and referring to Japanese people as Japs has kept me from opening it again since the 80s......

BigChocFrenzy · 07/11/2019 15:19

Louise in 1972, Martin McGuinness was chauffered in a luxurious UK official car (which impressed him) to talks with the then Sec of State Willie Whitelaw (who didn't)

I remembered there were several other official or secret talks, but hadn't realised how many until I checked last GE
The talks only really became productive once all sides - and their civilian supporters in Ieland & GB - were exhausted with violence

Not my usual source, but this has a detailled list of talks between the UK govt & IRA:

https://ansionnachfionn.com/2017/05/22/thirty-years-of-secret-talks-and-negotiations-between-britain-and-the-ira/

Below is a very short summary of the secret wartime communications, talks and negotiations between the Republican Movement and the United Kingdom from the 1970s to 2000s.

Under the leadership of the Conservative and Labour parties, the UK repeatedly entered into covert backchannel deals with the IRA,
while arguing otherwise to its own citizens (and occasionally, to fellow members of the same government).

Of the six British prime ministers from 1969 to 1997, five engaged in talks with the Irish insurgents, directly or indirectly.

These included Edward Heath (Conservative), Harold Wilson (Labour), Margaret Thatcher (Conservative), John Major (Conservative) and Tony Blair (Labour).

< then comes a long detailled list under this >

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 15:19

Govt desperately trying not to appear Grinchy, and not succeeding

I wonder how that will resonate with their Christian voters ? (Of course Muslims place great stock in Christmas too, but I doubt that troubled the governments mind overly much ...)

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 15:24

I'm not denying there were talks, nor that they formed an important part of the peace process. It's just that Corbyn had fuck all to do with them.

LouiseCollins28 · 07/11/2019 15:25

Thanks to DGR and Bigchoc for the info on the McGuiness/Whitelaw meetings, did not know about those.

ArseDarkly · 07/11/2019 15:25

Wonder why the Jewish Chronicle have shot their bolt so early? there's 5 weeks to go yet, shouldn't they have saved their heartfelt frontpage plea til nearer the time?

BigChocFrenzy · 07/11/2019 15:27

The depressing fact is that both parties will use dog-whistle racism to pander to their nastier supporters
Listen to the victims in both parties, not just one.

Labour's anti-semitism and the Tories' Islamophobia are equally vile racism and should both be condemned

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 15:28

Of the six British prime ministers from 1969 to 1997, five engaged in talks with the Irish insurgents, directly or indirectly.

At the same time as claiming "we never negotiate with terrorists" and knowing that innocents would die.

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 15:30

Attempts to merge Corbyn's self promoting fuckwittery with secret talks undertaken by the government are foolish.

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 15:31

Labour's anti-semitism and the Tories' Islamophobia are equally vile racism and should both be condemned

Putting aside the whole question about "what is race ? Hmm" can we agree that doesn't preclude someone from condemning Israel when it behaves illegally, and condemning those that use Islam to justify their own ends ?

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 15:32

Meanwhile, DS found this ...

Westminstenders: Dissolved.
BigChocFrenzy · 07/11/2019 15:33

Yep, Bellini Corbyn is a dim & lazy student agitator type who accidentally stumbled into becoming Labour leader

  • only because irresponsible Labour moderates were virtue-signalling in the MP nominations
and were so remote from the membership that they assumed he'd be massively defeated.

He had achieved absolutely nothing, in NI or anywhere else. until becoming leader and anything positive since then has been done by others

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 15:34

People in Israel criticise their government's policies all the time. Anti-Zionism is arguing that Israel should not exist. The two things are not the same.
I'm half Jewish as well as half Irish.Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 07/11/2019 15:36

That is the scandal about him, rather than the Tory fantasies of him planning Stalinist concentration camps for the rich.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/11/2019 15:38

Also, the remaining Tory sane MPs had the numbers to exclude BJ from the final 2 if they wanted

However, they thought he had the best chance of winning a GE and saving their seats.

So they voted for him, knowing what a lying & lazy weasel he is, and that he was a national disgrace & liability as Foreign Sec

mrslaughan · 07/11/2019 15:39

@DGRossetti

I think there's an issue with some people trying to make criticism of Israel (which isn't a very nice country at times) some sort of synonym for "anti-semitic". Or any expression of support for a homeland for the Palestinian people.

I completely agree. I completely support freedom of religion. But I can't support Israel , because the oppression that they subject the Palestinians too......but I was told on this thread that any criticism of Israel made me anti-semetic. That maybe how people choose to define anti-semetism today - but it's just become that so people don't have to deal with the Palestinian issue. I disagree with that - as I am talking about a political stance - not a religious stance. I personally believe many on the Isreali gov and military should be tried for war crimes, that past persecution is not an excuse to then persecute people of a different ethnicity and religion. But then the USA and UK have a lot to answer for in that regard as well - as Israel would not be doing it without their support.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/11/2019 15:44

bellini many of those I've met who argue for the dissolution of Israel have a clappy-happy kumbaya vission of everyone living happily in harmony afterwards
Especially common in unis and idealistic political circles where they also believe a man can become a woman.

They naively expect it would be not much worse than the dissolution of the UK if NI and Scotland leave.

Another example of ignorance and emotion trumping basic facts

BigChocFrenzy · 07/11/2019 15:46

MrsL They certainly have committed war crimes for decades, now that the religious nutters are mostly running the country
However, that's no reason for dissolving a country.
Or many other countries including the UK & US would be toast too

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 15:52

many of those I've met who argue for the dissolution of Israel

I've no problem with the existence of Israel. Which is a good job too, being in Britain which (despite the ignorance of a vast proportion of it's inhabitants) is pretty much the reason the Middle East looks like it does today. It's probably the one region of the world where the US gets a pass from it's usual "what can we fuck up here" world view.

Incidentally, and moving off and on topic in a single sentence Grin, did anyone catch Kae Kurd on "Live at the Apollo" on Monday ? Not for Brexiteers, but I found him funny and interesting. Not many Kurdish comedians doing the UK circuit right now ....

mrslaughan · 07/11/2019 15:53

So this remain alliance is likely to succeed in putting the Conservative back in parliament

So what - we should only have a voice b/w the tories and labour ? If appropriate in my electorate I would happily vote for the remain alliance candidate...... and know many others that woul

placemats · 07/11/2019 15:54

Fact checking Johnson's opening election speech. From (drum roll) the BBC.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50317404

Apileofballyhoo · 07/11/2019 15:54

placemats the last thread filled up before I had a chance to say sorry for your loss. Flowers

I hope you're ok.

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