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Brexit

Westminstenders: Dissolved.

952 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/11/2019 19:44

Parliament has formally been dissolved. We are now officially in an election period including purdah and spending limits. Not that all the parties haven't got campaign material out already to bypass the rules, making the rules a complete farce. And the government has made some very dodgy adverts about the fund for towns, 90% of which just happen to be marginals.

The Tory Campaign has got off to an interesting start with a dead cat dog whistle against Grenfell where many well educated people lived (Inc an architect), privately owned their property and just happened to be white. And fast asleep. I'm not sure about you but I don't tend to have huge amounts of 'common sense' when I'm snoring.

Apologies have of course been made. In true Trumpian / Bannon style. But the whistle was blown and made its desired point to its target audience. Expect many more examples before we get to the end of this campaign.

Of course the same day it was made public that the government have blocked the publication of a report into Russian Electoral Interference. Which is in no way connected to the massive amount of donations the Tory Party has been receiving lately and who Boris Johnson hangs out with.

This election is all about breaking 'The Red Wall' and the Tories taking Northern seats. So everyone between Birmingham and Cumbria is going to be particularly fed up by 12th December at people from London coming out with ridiculous stereotypes, and telling them how to vote. We await Corbyn and Johnson adopting flat caps and vowels whilst drinking a pint of bitter or mild.

As usual we've had the candidate selection process throw up a few curve balls including forcing cabinet minister Alun Cairns to resign as Welsh Secretary on the day the tories launch their campaign. Its become very clear from the list of Tory MPs who aren't standing that the party has officially split and 'one nation conservatism' is merely now a slogan Johnson throws around to pretend that the hard right of the party hasn't slung out or forced out all the moderates. On the Labour side we have the usual rows at factions in local parties fighting or being really upset at a London candidate being parachuted in.

Farage isn't standing but the Brexit Party apparently is, despite calls for an electoral pact with the Tories. Whether local parties get the memo from Leave.eu and CCHQ we will find out in time. The LDs, Greens and Plaid seem to be consolidating a Remain pact in some seats but this still splits the vote with Labour which will be a problem in some areas.

Johnson is apparently standing in Uxbridge. This does leave us with the possibility he could yet lose his seat. Swinson's seat is also far from a safe one. Corbyn will likely be safe but Islington did back the LDs as the 1st Party at the Euros with the assistance of some very pissed off Labour members.

Nothing is certain about the next 6 weeks apart from the fact it will throw up some shocks and leave us all shouting at the telly at some point.

OP posts:
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Mistigri · 07/11/2019 14:39

Bellini: Corbyn appears to have met David Ervine on several occasions and was on good terms with the late Ian Paisley according to his widow.

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 14:40

Im only a bit younger than Corbyn and I went to uni with inconsequential twats that liked to pose about with their "edgy" views. He's no different.

I didn't go to Uni with him, but I shared a house with a guy from Northern Ireland (Ballycastle) who taught me a lot. I can't say re-educated, as I'd had (like most English) fuck all education about Ireland to start with.

prettybird · 07/11/2019 14:42

The Queen has shaken hands with Martin McGuiness as well, if you are going to go on about whataboutery Confused

Nelson Mandela also promoted the use of violence. Should he then have been forever damned? In (white) South African eyes, he was a terrorist - and many thought he should have got the death penalty.

I also condemn terrorism and the deaths that result - but it is an unfortunate truism that one person's "freedom fighter" is another person's "terrorist" Sad

It is also an uncomfortable fact that the peace process in NI only truly made progress (on the UK government's side) when the bombing moved to the UK mainland, in particular the financial district of the City of London Angry Until then, it had been contained in a part of the UK that, if one was cynical, wasn't "as important" Angry

I'm neither justifying nor condemning what Corbyn did or who he met: I don't know enough of the circumstances or what he was seeking to achieve on those occasions. I'm just saying that it is rarely that black and white.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 07/11/2019 14:42

Google William Whitelaw secret meetings 1972.

Wasnt Bill Clinton at Martin McGuinnesses funeral?

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 14:44

Martin McGuinness was on good terms with Paisley at the end. I think he had a more important role in both revolting terrorism and steps to peace. Corbyn was a no mark backbencher all his political life until he got elected leader out of nowhere.
The Queen shaking McGuinness' hand was a more politically significant moment. That meant something amazing for both sides. Corbyn doing the seventies and eighties equivalent of selfies with "edgy" types means jack shit.

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 14:44

That the government met with the IRA wouldn't surprise me in the least. Be interesting to have it confirmed whether it actually was the government though, or merely "members of the governing party", if its the latter, that's one hell of a difference.

It's all in the history books ... Ted Heath sent Willie Whitelaw, I believe (spends a few seconds googling)

news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/10/newsid_2499000/2499643.stm

The meeting lasted three hours and gave the IRA an opportunity to make demands that they claimed were a fair exchange for continued peace.

The demands were: a total withdrawal of British forces; the right to self-determination by the Irish people; and an amnesty for political prisoners.

(contd)

so pretty much what was agreed 20 years - and too many dead later Sad

US take on things ...

www.nytimes.com/1972/07/11/archives/whitelaw-tells-of-meeting-ira-aides.html

GhostofFrankGrimes · 07/11/2019 14:48

Bellin how was McGuinness generally viewed by the British in the 70s and 80s? Your dislike of corbyn is tying you up in knots.

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 14:48

Again, Corbyn was so far from the centre of government or even tbe front bench of the Labour Party, his actions were purely about his own image.

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 14:48

Scummy Livingstone, unlike Corbyn, had an important position as head of the GLC. Given that London was targeted with IRA violence, I can stomach a scumbag like him sucking up to terrorists. At least he was in a senior position

Actually his interest (and there are echoes of this in Khans tenure) came about because London was also home to a large (if not the largest) Irish ex-pat community in the UK.

Didn't someone mention French parliament ages ago ? Pretty certain I read that France regards London as it's own Department, because so many French citizens live there ...

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 14:49

@GhostofFrankGrimes I can see a difference between key figures and self promoting twats. No knots here.

Mistigri · 07/11/2019 14:50

Yeah - I think it is telling that people who wouldn't normally defend Corbyn find that this goes well beyond legitimate criticism of his record.

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 14:52

Martin McGuinness was on good terms with Paisley at the end.

There's a photo somewhere of the two walking side by side and sharing a joke. It's seared into my mind as a "never thought I'd see" and "There's hope for us all" image. Similar to the Sadat/Begin pictures from the 70s.

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 14:53

I am nearly his age. I'm half Irish. Attempts to rewrite history and big up his role in the peace process make me sick.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 07/11/2019 14:53

How do we distinguish politicians following causes and self promotion? Is it all in the mind?

Interesting that someone like Martin mcguiness can travel the long road to redemption and someone else can be eternally condemned for a photograph.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 07/11/2019 14:53

Nelson Mandela also promoted the use of violence. Should he then have been forever damned? In (white) South African eyes, he was a terrorist - and many thought he should have got the death penalty.
He was also said to have had links with Irish republicans prior to the signing of the GFA. Gerry Adams was selected to be part of an ANC guard of honour before his actual funeral. These things aren't often as simple as some people will make out sadly.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 07/11/2019 14:54

I don't think anyone is bigging up his role Confused

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 14:54

If you can't see the difference between Martin McGuinness' role in the peace process and Corbyn's, I can't help you.

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 14:57

Of course they are bigging up his role . That's part of Momentum's attempts to explain away his sucking up to the IRA and every bloody antisemite around. "It's all about dialogue and peace. Don't you believe in peace?" Not falling for it. And I'm a lifelong Labour voter.

derxa · 07/11/2019 14:58

Martin McGuinness was on good terms with Paisley at the end. I think he had a more important role in both revolting terrorism and steps to peace. Corbyn was a no mark backbencher all his political life until he got elected leader out of nowhere.The Queen shaking McGuinness' hand was a more politically significant moment. That meant something amazing for both sides. Corbyn doing the seventies and eighties equivalent of selfies with "edgy" types means jack shit.
Exactly. He was a complete bloody irrelevance.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 07/11/2019 15:00

I can see the difference between an Irish Republican and a British politician.

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 15:02

Not all British politicians are equal. Ask Mo Mowlem. Actually, you can't, she's dead.

tobee · 07/11/2019 15:04

Just glancing at the film The Young Mr Pitt with Robert Donat.

The parliament at the time wasn't very edifying either (according to Carol Reed and 20th Century Fox)

GhostofFrankGrimes · 07/11/2019 15:08

Again I'm not seeing anyone suggest Corbyn played the same role as mo mowlam.

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 15:09

Momentum do it all the time. Corbyn played an integral role in the peace process. That's their schtick.

MockersthefeMANist · 07/11/2019 15:13

Govt desperately trying not to appear Grinchy, and not succeeding:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-50331447