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Brexit

Westminstenders: Dissolved.

952 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/11/2019 19:44

Parliament has formally been dissolved. We are now officially in an election period including purdah and spending limits. Not that all the parties haven't got campaign material out already to bypass the rules, making the rules a complete farce. And the government has made some very dodgy adverts about the fund for towns, 90% of which just happen to be marginals.

The Tory Campaign has got off to an interesting start with a dead cat dog whistle against Grenfell where many well educated people lived (Inc an architect), privately owned their property and just happened to be white. And fast asleep. I'm not sure about you but I don't tend to have huge amounts of 'common sense' when I'm snoring.

Apologies have of course been made. In true Trumpian / Bannon style. But the whistle was blown and made its desired point to its target audience. Expect many more examples before we get to the end of this campaign.

Of course the same day it was made public that the government have blocked the publication of a report into Russian Electoral Interference. Which is in no way connected to the massive amount of donations the Tory Party has been receiving lately and who Boris Johnson hangs out with.

This election is all about breaking 'The Red Wall' and the Tories taking Northern seats. So everyone between Birmingham and Cumbria is going to be particularly fed up by 12th December at people from London coming out with ridiculous stereotypes, and telling them how to vote. We await Corbyn and Johnson adopting flat caps and vowels whilst drinking a pint of bitter or mild.

As usual we've had the candidate selection process throw up a few curve balls including forcing cabinet minister Alun Cairns to resign as Welsh Secretary on the day the tories launch their campaign. Its become very clear from the list of Tory MPs who aren't standing that the party has officially split and 'one nation conservatism' is merely now a slogan Johnson throws around to pretend that the hard right of the party hasn't slung out or forced out all the moderates. On the Labour side we have the usual rows at factions in local parties fighting or being really upset at a London candidate being parachuted in.

Farage isn't standing but the Brexit Party apparently is, despite calls for an electoral pact with the Tories. Whether local parties get the memo from Leave.eu and CCHQ we will find out in time. The LDs, Greens and Plaid seem to be consolidating a Remain pact in some seats but this still splits the vote with Labour which will be a problem in some areas.

Johnson is apparently standing in Uxbridge. This does leave us with the possibility he could yet lose his seat. Swinson's seat is also far from a safe one. Corbyn will likely be safe but Islington did back the LDs as the 1st Party at the Euros with the assistance of some very pissed off Labour members.

Nothing is certain about the next 6 weeks apart from the fact it will throw up some shocks and leave us all shouting at the telly at some point.

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DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 14:11

OK well I'm not understanding then DGR. Having reread what you wrote before I'm little the wiser, sorry.

"Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

To add some culture to the thread Grin

GhostofFrankGrimes · 07/11/2019 14:12

The government met secretly with the IRA in the 1970s. Prisoners were released as part of the GFA. Unpalatable, understandably to some but the only way a fragile peace was ever going to be realised. Important to look at the bigger picture.

Mistigri · 07/11/2019 14:14

Pic is of a Claire Fox (and several other BXP candidates) era RCP publication, reporting on the Warrington bombing.

In case it's not clear, the text says: "we defend the right of the Irish people to take whatever measures are necessary in their struggle for freedom".

Regardless of your opinion on Corbyn (and mine is not very high) I have yet to see any evidence that he supported terrorists taking "whatever measures are necessary".

Westminstenders: Dissolved.
MockersthefeMANist · 07/11/2019 14:17

After Skinner comes Bottomley. Margaret Beckett precedes them both, but she was out of the house from 1979-83.

I'm not sure it is an 'Honour' one can refuse. It is a simple matter of chronological timeserving fact.

dreichwinter · 07/11/2019 14:18

As someone who has lived in Latin America Corbyn's judgments around who to support in that area are shocking as well.
He knows a great deal about the area and understands a lot of the complexities which makes some of his choices even more inexplicable.
Ft article on Venezuela.
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/83424336-2a29-11e9-88a4-c32129756dd8

But overall I still hold that Brexit is the biggest current threat to the UK and the conservatives are therefore the most damaging party.
Although Corbyn does his best to run them a close second he isn't as in control of his party as the hard right are in the conservatives.

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 14:19

Corbyn has never been in government or even the front bench of the Labour Party. Likening his self promotion antics to secret government talks is more naive nonsense. He was and is a useful idiot for any bastard looking for one.

LouiseCollins28 · 07/11/2019 14:20

Not seeing the image Misti but regardless I couldn't be supportive of sentiment like that from Claire Fox et al. Fortunately, none of them is putting themselves forward to be the next Prime Minister.

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 14:21

@Mistigri , so shaking iRA handsafter the IRA tried to murder our democratically elected government (whom I despised, btw) doesn't count as supporting "any means necessary "? Hmm

JustAnotherPoster00 · 07/11/2019 14:23

Do you mean Sinn Fein Bellini?

MockersthefeMANist · 07/11/2019 14:25

It is said that the spooks have a file on Corbyn, but expect the Tories to soft-pedal on that since they are also likely to have files on Vote Leave and Leave.EU.

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 14:26

Same fucking difference. I'm old. I'm half Irish. I have no problem in seeing the two as the same. UVF/DUP for balance.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 07/11/2019 14:26

And a file on Johnson and his stays on Russian mountain

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 14:26

The government met secretly with the IRA in the 1970s. Prisoners were released as part of the GFA. Unpalatable, understandably to some but the only way a fragile peace was ever going to be realised. Important to look at the bigger picture.

In the 1980s, in "Holidays in Hell" P.J. O'Rourke visits British Army personnel in NI, and IRA members (with the sort of access that being an American gave you. Especially an American with a surname like "O'Rourke"). The take home message was that both regarded the situation as an acceptable level of violence. I have emphasized that phrase, as it was directly quoted from both sides in that form.

I would recommend the book, but notice that reprints have removed that chapter (www.<a class="break-all" href="https://amazon.co.uk/Holidays-Hell-ORourke-P-J/dp/0802137016).?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-eu-referendum-2016--3737155-Westminstenders-Dissolved" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amazon.co.uk/Holidays-Hell-ORourke-P-J/dp/0802137016). I have a copy of the print original on my shelves (so I know it happened) along with a copy of "The Anarchists Cookbook" and "The CIA Field Manual for insurgent operations". I guess my place in Belmarsh is assured.

Mistigri · 07/11/2019 14:27

Bellini, you know very well it doesn't. Having your picture taken does not mean you share all the opinions of all the other people in the photo. And it certainly falls far short of a clear statement that the end justifies the means (even if this involves dead children in Warrington).

I am quite happy to criticise Corbyn based on his actual views as expressed in speech or writing, now or then.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 07/11/2019 14:27

You don't have to be a front bencher or member of the cabinet to pursue certain issues. Thinking otherwise is naive.

Was releasing prisoners, iirc some of whom posed outside of prison, upon release with flags like heroes poor judgement by the GFA signatories?

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 14:28

And photos of Corbyn with the UVF are where, exactly?

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 14:31

I accept that the peace process necessarily involved unpalatable prisoner releases. I accept that preserving GFA is a number one Brexit priority.
Im only a bit younger than Corbyn and I went to uni with inconsequential twats that liked to pose about with their "edgy" views. He's no different.

tobee · 07/11/2019 14:34

The dodgier MPs have risen to the top. The cream of the crop (?) have long since sunk to the bottom or leaked away.

Not very edifying, is it?

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 14:34

Probably not the best time to mention Ken Livingstone Grin, but as leader of the GLC he was the devil incarnate for being an IRA sympathiser.

Except when he visited our sixth form (invited by the Young Socialists, as was Tony Benn, who also attended. Never saw a Tory anywhere near the place) he was put to the question about that, and it wasn't quite a reported. I recall him emphatically denouncing violence and saying we can either fight, or talk. That was it. Having already done my O Level history I was well aware of the jaw-jaw/war-war epithet. And who said it. It was a very good lesson in the horses mouth approach to fact, rather than the Daily Mail approach.

Although my main memories from that era are more "Fares fair".

GhostofFrankGrimes · 07/11/2019 14:35

When a politician meets with someone it is not automatically an endorsement of that person's views.

tobee · 07/11/2019 14:35

I went to Corbyn's uni!! (Poly, actually) Now there's a thing!

Lots of us middle class lefties there.

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 14:36

Having your picture taken does not mean you share all the opinions of all the other people in the photo.

tobee · 07/11/2019 14:37

True Ghost. But as they say these days, what are the optics?

LouiseCollins28 · 07/11/2019 14:37

I am thinking that personnel in a professional army are very likely to find a level of violence "acceptable" that is very considerably higher than the civilian citizenry would. That doesn't mean they are right.

That the government met with the IRA wouldn't surprise me in the least. Be interesting to have it confirmed whether it actually was the government though, or merely "members of the governing party", if its the latter, that's one hell of a difference.

bellinisurge · 07/11/2019 14:37

Scummy Livingstone, unlike Corbyn, had an important position as head of the GLC.
Given that London was targeted with IRA violence, I can stomach a scumbag like him sucking up to terrorists. At least he was in a senior position.