Brexit Arms. Empty Ditch for sale. Interested parties please contact owner by 12th Dec.

[Epicwaffle]

Apparently the usual landlady over ordered on Bar nuts on the last thread. Just step over them if you find them here, as we haven’t had a chance to clear them up yet.

Welcome to all friendly parties!

First drinks are free!

One of the best things wrt tax that the Tories have done as far as I'm concerned is raising the personal tax allowance (think it's doubled since 2010?)

I couldn't disagree more with this. It's all part of running down the economy and dismantling the state. You have to remember that taxes pay for the state: without the state we have no public services, and without public services we are all worse off.

More subtly it is part of the constant attacks on the whole concept of state provision and public sector provision, and enabling the destruction of the concept of social co-operation to achieve goals none of us could achieve alone. Ultimately it is destroying social cohesion and any real sense of national identity and belonging.

Since the personal tax allowance was raised to the point where some people work without paying any tax, I have been waiting for someone to start saying that 'this group don't pay tax, therefore they shouldn't have access to public services'. Of course what's happening is that the services are being dismantled for all of us and being replaced with a far more expensive pay-as-you-go model, which not everyone can afford.

I'd far rather see wages increased, or the cost of living decreased, and everyone putting a little bit into the pot, enabling services for all.

Translation: the HoC and HoL should have been given sufficient time to shred the WAB until it was BRINO

Not necessarily - perhaps you haven’t comprehended the effect it will have on the Constitution.

And, although you don’t like that idea, BRINO would still fulfil the mandate of the 2016 referendum.

And, although you don’t like that idea, BRINO would still fulfil the mandate of the 2016 referendum.
This is true. The fact that Leavers have never been able to agree what Brexit is (hard, soft, no deal) and that they change their minds every few months has led us to this stage. It's pointless Leavers complaining that this is/isn't Brexit when it's never been articulated in the first place. It all goes back to a willingness to vote for something that had no plan.

Doesn't Singapore or somewhere have very little income tax and surprisingly they have more money?

^^crude contribution to tax discussion.

Corbachov

Brilliant

Raising the personal tax allowance is a brilliant idea I just can't believe they took so long to do it

Absolutely agree with DarkAtEndofUK.

Abolishing tax at the bottom end of the earning spectrum is exactly the same as subsidising wages via the benefits system. It allows the rich to pay lower wages while chastising the poor for not earning enough to contribute.

This was the LibDem's most damaging policy contribution to the Coalition imo - worse than tuition fees. The trade off was dismantling support for those unable to earn the new higher basic allowance thus compounding the effect. The Tories would have done neither without the LibDems as it was not part of their manifesto. In fact they may even have opted to implement IDS's Universal Credit as originally intended, which would have been significantly more generous than Tax Credits for the bottom end.

Gorbachev was more like Tony Blair politically- so Corbachev doesn't work. Funny but wrong. Just sayin'

🏉😢

“I have been waiting for someone to start saying that 'this group don't pay tax, therefore they shouldn't have access to public services”

Oh people do say that, plenty of them. Maybe not in Parliament, or in camera, but plenty of people say it.

I actually think having a higher personal allowance threshold but also higher taxation rates is a good idea - cheaper than administering benefits, same effect of the poorest paying less and those who can better afford it paying more (I’m a higher rate taxpayer, so not suggesting anything that I wouldn’t be happy to do myself).

Increasing minimum wage to a living wage (so people in full time employment don’t need benefits to survive) would also be a good idea, and would incentivise working far more than the stick approach used with UC.

“Doesn't Singapore or somewhere have very little income tax and surprisingly they have more money?”

Depends on who you mean by “they”. They have much higher income inequality than the U.K. Certainly if you are an unskilled foreign worker (30% of their workforce) you aren’t paid much.

www.researchgate.net/publication/242593839_Income_Inequality_in_Singapore_Causes_Consequences_and_Policy_Options

Sorry Dusty I have South African relatives so had a foot in both camps again - also afflicted a bit with Andy Murray "anyone but England syndrome". Having to bite my tongue as DH is 100% English today.

😂 howabout ABE is a terrible state of affairs!!

Fair play to SA though - deserved win.

Sashkin I agree with you on raising minimum wage but problem is it doesn't help the self-employed or those on zero hours contracts or those unable to work FT. The "living wage" requirement is also very different for a middle aged empty nester who owns their house from a young family starting out with a mortgage / rent.

I agree that sticking up the tax allowance was a very good move. The Tories do not get enough credit for it. I would like to see the corporation tax rate cut too, at least to the same as Ireland's to attract more businesses here. Then to fill up the coffers, I would like Labour's land tax which I thought was a very sound idea.

One of the best things wrt tax that the Tories have done as far as I'm concerned is raising the personal tax allowance

That was Libdem policy introduced by Coalition government.

I agree with it, it makes sense for low earners to be taken out of tax altogether. I suppose the Tories can get a bit of credit for continuing it.

Also agree with increasing minimum wage, especially for younger age groups - the work is the same however old you are. Businesses will bleat that they can't afford it, well if that is actually true, your business model doesn't stack up.

Evening all. Not feeling too pint by the fire yet so could I have a Pisco Sour and some tortilla chips please?

What a nice change for discussion this evening - the conditions of the low-paid, self-employed, zero-hours and sub-contract workers. I'm very familiar with them, it's how I've been employed since 1995. Please note the date - yes 1995, so it's been a 'creep', making it's way through our working conditions to now become the 'norm' amongst the low-paid.

Anyhoo, as the Income Tax Personal Allowances have increased the NI thresholds have decreased so any 'argument' that states the low-paid don't contribute is wrong. Yes they do, in NI contributions.

Yes, it's wrong that the low-paid need Tax Credits/UC to prop up their earnings, but I'm not complaining because they've kept DS and I afloat for many years. I put this more down to Globalization than anything else.

I look forward to finding solutions to this when we take out the FOM lever - and every study has shown that the only negative impacts of FOM have been on the low-paid. Yes, overall the effects on the UK have been positive, but it has had evidenced negative impacts on the low-paid. But feck them right?

Post-Brexit (or when we are officially making our transition out) I really might consider voting Labour in future elections.

I agree low earners should pay very little tax but I wonder what the negative effects of taking them out of the tax 'system' are. Does if affect how they view tax in general? Remember the 10p tax band. It does seem to be becoming a them and us system. Wouldn't it be better if we were all invested in making the system better.

On another note, has anyone heard more news about this story? The far left are encouraging students to vote twice.

Does increasing the amount of money that I can earn without directly paying more for Income Tax make me less aware of and alter my view of taxation? Or anything?

No it does not. I actually like it when I can pay a bit of Income Tax - it means I'm doing ok. I get a buzz when all my bills are paid, which they always are, call me a low-paid wierdo, but that's what most people I know do. They're low-paid too.

I've just sunk below being taxed on one wage and it makes perfect sense to me. My wage is low, I think it should be raised further. Maybe even 15,000.
I still pay ni and have small other income I pay tax on.
Dh pays tax too. And we pay tax on everything else, car tax, vat on everything.

Evening all, I'll have a red please?

I have no problem with paying tax, although sort of luckily, for the last 4 years when I've had both DDs at uni, I was below the tax threshhold which helped enormously with their loan amounts. If I had been just over, there is no way we could have afforded to sub them the extra to help them pay their way. It's not just the actual amount, but the deposits etc reqd for accomodation which would have been very hard to find. DD1 got extra finance for being the first in our immediate family to go to uni, some for being dyslexic and some for choosing her particular uni. DD2 just got the standard (max) amount.

I really don't think parental income should have any impact on student loans... lots of parents won't/can't help, and of course most of these are in the lower income bracket. Pisses me off that our overlords all got their uni education for free, AND got grants as well!

“I really don't think parental income should have any impact on student loans... lots of parents won't/can't help, and of course most of these are in the lower income bracket. Pisses me off that our overlords all got their uni education for free, AND got grants as well!”

Can’t disagree with this!

I shall not be encouraging mine to go to uni unless they show massive academic potential.

Times are different now. Often its best to get on the ground experience..
I don't want them saddled with 50 grand of debt.

I'm also more than than happy to pay tax we pay it every single day on everything!!

I'm more than than happy to pay it off from wage, but I feel 15 or thereabouts is reasonable to start paying.
We still pay ni and tax on everything else.

I saw Farage today on Andrew marr. Even arron banks is saying, Farage has lost the plot.

Really sad.... It's so crucial that we leave, all the other tweaking can go on as we leave.

Oh and Emily thornberry has written to mi5 about contacts Dominic Cummings made in Russia 😂😂😂😂

Seen on twitter re Comrade Cumminsky dramz:

"It was 20+ years ago. I doubt the Yeltsin-era SVR were actively recruiting fledgling airline operators on the off-chance they’d end up working in Downing Street.”

#ClassicDmitri 😉😂

(Disclaimer: I cannot take credit for Dmitri Cumminsky moniker - shamelessly stolen from someone else 😳)

#classicdmitry