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Brexit

Anyone else worry that we could end up with civil war and the break up of the UK?

210 replies

KennDodd · 25/10/2019 16:09

All because of that wretched unnecessary referendum.

A number of surveys have shown just how many people think violence and the break up of the UK is a price worth paying for Brexit (or no Brexit). We've already got increased tensions in both NI and Scotland. Brexit has all the far right racist groups on their side, so quick to violence, Remain has the young on its side, so again quick to violence. Politicians and the media seem to be intent on only raising the temperature further.

This isn't something that keeps me awake at night or anything but I think people are naive if they think it could never happen here. I suppose one way to avoid it would be if Brexit did happen and the sunlit uplands and all the Brexit promises actually happened. I don't know anyone (Leave or Remain) who believes everything will suddenly get a lot better anymore though. Even if it did I still can't see any solution for the border in Ireland.

OP posts:
TatianaLarina · 26/10/2019 14:44

The majority of this country is too overweight to run any kind of civil war effectively. Besides they might miss something on Netflix.

MysteryTripAgain · 26/10/2019 15:05

no one had the faintest knowledge, or interest^ in the importance of The GFA to peace on the island of Ireland

Might have something to do with the following facts:

Neither the GFA nor NI were referenced by the UK government remain campaign leaflet sent to every household in the UK, at a cost of £9 million to the taxpayers.

UK website EUreferendum.co.uk made no mention of GFA or NI either.

IWorkAtTheCheescakeFactory · 26/10/2019 16:27

If we don't leave as planned due to the risk of more bombings etc in Ireland/ N Ireland we are giving in to terrorism.

It’s nothing to do with that and everything to do with not breaching an international agreement. You can’t just go around breaching those without consequence you know? Otherwise they would be utterly meaningless. Is that what you want?

Miljah · 26/10/2019 16:32

Mystery Oh, Remain isn't blameless by any means.

They made the mistake of believing that the benefits of EU membership were so obvious and self-evident; no one in their right mind would conceive of leaving; but, to be fair, before the concept of an EU referendum was mooted, only 6% of the public put 'the EU' as being their primary concern.

And, the most googled term the day after the referendum was 'What is the EU'?.....

I readily admit that while the Irish/NI border did cross my mind, the GFA didn't; but then, I voted how Cameron assumed anyone might: I looked around me, took stock of the issues I was aware the EU had a say in, recalled life prior to EC membership, as 'the sick man of Europe', and decided the status quo was fine by me.

Fatshedra · 26/10/2019 16:40

From Wikipedia
In the 2014 European Parliament elections, UKIP received the greatest number of votes (27.5%) of any British party, producing 24 MEPs. The party won seats in every region of Britain, including its first in Scotland

But still they assumed that the UK would vote remain.

Piggywaspushed · 26/10/2019 16:59

People on this thread seem blissfully unaware of sectarianism in the UK outside NI. It's a genuine concern in Glasgow.

HateIsNotGood · 26/10/2019 17:21

piggy I'm not unaware. The first question I was asked by schoolmates in 1975 - are you Protestant or Catholic? And that was flipping Perth, not even Glasgow. Been to loads of Noraid funded Bars in the US back in the day, I don't know if they're still about. All very well for Scots and US Irish to fan the flames, but they don't actually live in the fire do they?

Miljah · 26/10/2019 18:29

Fatshedra I imagine that fact didn't bypass the HoC at the time, but maybe UKIP weren't seen as that great a threat (I mean, where are they now?), especially as no one bothered to vote in the EP elections, did they?

But evidently the Right of the Tories decided to squash that threat by becoming more Right Wing themselves. (Like they are, again, now, against TBP).

Cameron's and our mistake was to not nullify that threat.

The EU could have assisted by offering Cameron a few more tidbits on his visit over to them, some placatory gewgaws that might have put The Far Right back in their box (while still, being Tories, not being seen to be addressing any root causes of discontent- nay, stoking those fires).

But we were all blindsided by the Leave Campaign, weren't we?

How were Remain to know how easily exploitable so many people were? How easily so many could be guided to conflate their financial and social problems with 'The EU'? How many had no idea how slim Turkey's chances were of joining? How few knew what the words Customs Union and Single Market meant? How few realised that EU nationals with no income could be told to leave?

The government just didn't think so much of this stuff needed spelling out. Partly because it was often Tory voting business owners benefitting from EU labour.

But Cummings knew the value of a soundbite, however dishonest the message was.

I didn't realise I was surrounded, (nationally, not locally) by so many people who could be rabble roused by a couple of slogans.

Clavinova · 26/10/2019 19:51

And, the most googled term the day after the referendum was 'What is the EU'?

I keep reading this 'fact'- it's a pointless statistic without the data.

How many people googled this question - 5,000, 50,000, 500,000? What age were they - 12, 13, 50? What nationality? 37 million tourists visited the UK in 2016 - how many tourists googled, "What is the EU?" Did their google count in the stats?

The most popular boys' name in 2016 was Oliver - about 6,600 of them - over 33 million people voted in the referendum.

minesagin37 · 26/10/2019 20:11

No because we are all too polite.

CurlyWurlyTwirly · 26/10/2019 20:17

From PP
there's a real undercurrent of English nationalism

Completely agree with this.
Breakup of the Union 100%

BertieBotts · 26/10/2019 20:17

Yes, I worry about this ever since the day of the result when both people I know who lived in former Yugoslavia said it reminded them of the start of the events that led to the breakup, one specifically pleaded with all of us not to just sit back and watch open-mouthed, as that was what they all did at the time.

It was because of that comment that I keep fighting (just in small ways unfortunately) against Brexit. But the urge to sit back and watch open mouthed is so strong because it is all so inexplicable.

Miljah · 27/10/2019 00:47

Nah, Clavinova, it's not pointless, that statement regarding what the EU is.

You come from a camp where 'Leave Means Leave!' - entirely without context, which is regarded as conclusive evidence of 'The Will Of The People'. 17.4m of them. Now apparently proof that Not Deal!'isThe Will Of The People.

Right now, just for fun, google 'the most googled term 24 June 2016'. It appears that some of your 17.4m weren't so sure about No Deal, given that some, apparently had not the foggiest what the EU was, did, stood for.

The referendum didn't care about age, social group, intelligence, ethnicity.

Nor does that google result.

So go away with you 'yeah, butttery'.

The fact stands alone.

DeeCeeCherry · 27/10/2019 00:58

Civil War?!

UK has the most 'lie down passively & accept the shit we dump on you' accepting ethos ever.

Unrest here will be akin to Boris being mauled by a mouse.

Miljah · 27/10/2019 01:01

Hopefully with rabies ...😂

MindyStClaire · 27/10/2019 06:50

Civil War?!

UK has the most 'lie down passively & accept the shit we dump on you' accepting ethos ever.

The UK has only been free of civil war for 21 years.

HeronLanyon · 27/10/2019 07:07

I fear increase in unrest - not sure I foresee riots exactly.

MysteryTripAgain · 27/10/2019 07:45

Extremist groups using the Brexit turmoil as camouflage is my best guess whether Brexit happens or not.

Helmetbymidnight · 27/10/2019 07:50

there are a lot of angry male brexiteers on sm they share a lot of features - usually bitter about ex-wife, love of football or motorbikes, all educated at 'university of life' - all coming out with the same non-thinking sound-bites. i wonder if theyll revolt if we dont leave eu, NOW. (always in caps/always tremendously bad spelling)

tumbleisatwat · 27/10/2019 07:51

@Helmetbymidnight

They'll get pissed and throw stuff. The police will deal with it quite easily.

dementedma · 27/10/2019 08:02

It's very likely there will be civil unrest whatever happens re Brexit. This is why OP Yellowhammer exists and why military personnel are involved

Babdoc · 27/10/2019 08:28

I think Scottish independence is unlikely. A third of SNP supporters actually voted for Brexit. I live in Scotland, and helped with the Better Together campaign that defeated the independence referendum in 2014. I see no sign of people wanting a re-run.
Quite the reverse- the chaos of Brexit has shown very clearly the folly of breaking up a long standing union. And the UK one goes back 300 years. We are all interrelated, and over 60% of Scotland’s trade is with England, Wales and NI. Only a fool would vote to lose the £2000 per head subsidy from England, and suffer a hard trade border at Berwick, against our major customer.
Scotland has no reserves to set up its own currency and can’t afford to underwrite any of its major banks. RBS alone has £74 billion of assets, and has already said it will move to London in the event of independence. Which would deprive Scotland of any share in its hefty corporation tax.
I think NI is a potential problem, but I don’t know how much appetite there is even there for a return to violence and economic ruin.

KennDodd · 27/10/2019 08:53

Those numbers are similar to the UK relationship with the EU though and Leave still won. Leave even had the added disincentive of igniting a civil war in NI yet still people voted for it.

OP posts:
MysteryTripAgain · 27/10/2019 09:09

Those numbers are similar to the UK relationship with the EU though and Leave still won. Leave even had the added disincentive of igniting a civil war in NI yet still people voted for it

Been said many times, leave won based on the following that were regularly promoted in UK media:

Immigration
UK gives £50 million per day to EU
EU Commissioners are not elected

Economic arguments all ignored.

Fatshedra · 27/10/2019 10:44

Why do remoaners keep going on and on??
You feel you lost because leavers are numpties who believed lies. Fine.
If you really DID belieave all leavers are numpties why oh why keep bleating on about it. Leavers are numpties. Ok. No ones arguing. Now PLEASE move on.