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Westministenders: Sub-Prime Minister at large

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2019 13:24

Our Sub-Prime Minister BJ is threatening a govt tantrum strike until he is allowed his Haribo GE on 12 December.

If MPs vote for a GE, he has promised them "more time" to debate the WAB,
but that would only be from 29 October to 7 November

  • ridiculously inadequate for such complex legislation -
before Parliament is automatically dissolved for the 25 sitting days before a GE.

The GE debate starts Monday 2:30 pm in the HoC
Corbyn says he'll agree to a GE if BJ takes No Deal off the table

BUT wIth this WA,
No deal cannot 100% be taken off the table whilst the Tories are in office:

they could still No Deal after transition ends on 31 December 2020,
if they don't request a transition by July.

We don't know when the EU will give their decision on an extension, or what it will be:

The EU may decide only after the HoC vote
- in which case MPs would be voting "blindly"

Tusk, Merkel & most other leaders want to grant the Flextension until 31 January,
but Macron & a few others want to give a short extension of only 2-4 weeks, to pressure MPs to pass the WA in November

  • in which case the GE would take place shortly after Brexit, which would be a gift to BJ.

A 12 December GE would also cause serious logistical problems for local council officials:

Apart from their poll station bookings clashing with Xmas bookings for church halls & schools,

they are legally required to send out all the polling cards based on the current electoral roll,
then at the GE, check names against the new electoral roll which must be updated on 1 December

The Rebel Alliance want a long extension, so they have time to add amendments to the WAB,
e.g. a CU, the Level Playing Field agreement in May's WA, maybe even a PV
So many may want to vote against a GE before that ..... but what does Corbyn want ?

BJ as PM could still change the date of any GE after he has agreed to it, if it suits him.

What does BJ want ?
Alice Cooper said it:

"I'm your top prime cut of meat, I'm your choice
I wanna be elected
I'm your yankee doodle dandy in a gold Rolls Royce
I wanna be elected
Kids want a savior, don't need a fake

I wanna be elected
We're all gonna rock to the rules that I make
I wanna be elected, elected, elected..."

m.youtube.com/watch?v=cSvy8HpxFxo

  • Post edited to correct dates
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DGRossetti · 25/10/2019 17:12

Someone asked down thread how to get no deal off the table - I think (and am prepared to be corrected) it's either via revoke or by signing the deal

Except Boris really doesn't want that deal. Or any deal. If he did, he'd be happy to let amendments though and have his deal.

He just wants thick people to think he wants a deal so he can flounce around about how "if only" etc etc.

Even the press have twigged that.

prettybird · 25/10/2019 17:13

Chilled out pussy Smile

Re IRA fundraising in the States, dh worked in New Hampshire in the 80s and got aggressive grief when he refused to donate to the Noraid activists who came round rattling their buckets in the bar he was in.

When he explained why he wouldn't donate to his friends, they genuinely didn't have a clue what purpose the funds raised were being used for.

(Dh is a Glaswegian catholic Wink now very lapsed Wink)

Westministenders: Sub-Prime Minister at large
TheMShip · 25/10/2019 17:17

Thanks for the programme recommendation DGR. I haven't seen it, didn't even know it was on - evenings tend to be either work or dealing with bedtime-avoiding-children around here. Saturday night Strictly is the only sacrosanct tv in our household! I really need to cut down my workload ...

Thanks also to Listening for the USA-Irish links. I'll have a read through later.

I like these quieter days on Westministenders, where all the background info gets discussed and linked to. Feels like it really rounds out the picture for me.

placemats · 25/10/2019 17:19

Timely reminder of what Bonnie Greer said.

www.facebook.com/BBCQuestionTime/videos/402554217329868/

BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2019 17:19

My late mum's family moved to the US from about 1950 from the Middle East

After about 1970, when she returned from visits she'd often talk disgustedly of seeing Noraid & co rattling the tin "for the North"
and how some women would take off their diamond jewellery and put that in too.

The family was spread quite widely over US states, but the rattling tin was ubiquitous

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ListeningQuietly · 25/10/2019 17:23

For anybody who has not seen it, do watch it on catchup
I learned loads and it encouraged me to read up more
"The Troubles - A Secret History" www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0008c47

prettybird · 25/10/2019 17:25

Interesting that Lewis Goodall on Sky News just now was calling out BJ's lies: explicitly saying that BJ and the other Conservative MPs are lying when they say that "Parliament has passed the deal". Pointing out that it had only got through its 1st real stage (the 2nd reading) and was nowhere near being "passed".

That needs to be repeated loudly and repeatedly. Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2019 17:26

The risks of a GE are v high, especially if Corbyn is tricked into one for an unsuitable date
< listen to Starmer & Benn, you dope ! >

However, without a GE, it looks like BJ's WA will pass eventually

  • because of ex-Tory and Labour Leave votes and because the Rebel Alliance can't agree on a GNU -

After that, we'll face No Deal again on 31 Dec 2020

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billysboy · 25/10/2019 17:29

the opposition are hopeless

youkiddingme · 25/10/2019 17:31

Is Boris likely to push photo ID through before this election he wants? While 3.5 m citizens do not have access to photo ID and 11 million have neither a passport or driving licence?
www.electoral-reform.org.uk/campaigns/upgrading-our-democracy/voter-id/

Most of those people probably being poor, disabled or otherwise disadvantaged and not mostly Tory supporters I'm guessing.

DGRossetti · 25/10/2019 17:38

Is Boris likely to push photo ID through before this election he wants?

Can he ? Is it something Tory rebels or the DUP are going to vote for ?

We've entered a weird - although not entirely unprecedented - state whereby the PM can't just whisk a law through when they want.

Of course a canny opposition could say to Boris you can have voter ID or an election.

Basilpots · 25/10/2019 17:44

Thanks for that link Listening.

One of the reporters Jennifer O’Leary was interviewed today by Adrian Chiles on 5Live. It’s worth a listen. From about 2h40.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0009lg3

DGRossetti · 25/10/2019 17:45

Why is Emma Kennedy not PM ?

Westministenders: Sub-Prime Minister at large
Rhubarbisevil · 25/10/2019 17:46

Thank you for your responses. This thread moves so fast!

thecatfromjapan · 25/10/2019 17:47

I wonder if what Johnson actually wants is for Brexit to just be taken out of his hands.

It strikes me that all Parties know it's a nightmare by now. But, equally, they know that it's certain death to try and bring the whole sorry episode to a close.

So it's not that they're there, poised to inflict their Brexit. It's more that they're hoping someone will blink and just end the nightmare - without their Party taking the fall for it.

Yes, Johnson's in hock to the no-dealers - but he knows the cost of No Deal as well as we do. As do the rest of his Party. And we know he's not risking his Desl being debated because it will explode. It might pass - but it will explode. Literally - N Ireland truce will come undone - and, eventually, that will be a problem for the mainland and for US-Uk relations.

And even Labour Lexiteers must know it's a mess by know ...

But here we are. With no political Party wanting to take the hit.

prettybird · 25/10/2019 17:47

Tweet from Lewis Goodall - he describes the PM as repeating "the complete untruth" that Parliament has "approved the deal" ConfusedAngry I'm pretty sure that on the TV, he said "lie" - but I have t rewound to double check, so happy to be corrected Wink

Westministenders: Sub-Prime Minister at large
placemats · 25/10/2019 17:47

Great input to the thread billys

If the opposition is hopeless, where does that leave the 'man-up' Government?

The sewer?

thecatfromjapan · 25/10/2019 17:50

And, you know, it is significant that the polls have shifted to Remain.

And those Remainers are quite firm now.

It's quite something to inflict a Brexit on a population that either don't want it - at all - or who say they do but are clearly quite unprepared for the reality.

placemats · 25/10/2019 17:56

I agree TheCat Boris doesn't want it. Buyer's remorse is showing clearly now.

Let him sweat it out, I say.

DGRossetti · 25/10/2019 18:00

I wonder if what Johnson actually wants is for Brexit to just be taken out of his hands.

If it could be done in a way that kept him as PM, he'd take it like a shot.

Even as Theresa May was clearly entering the Last Days of Sodom, many people (myself included Grin) noticed that the reason she'd stayed so long is that her successor - whoever it was to be - would be crucified by the weight of contradictions that is Brexit.

Does anyone recall that brief invented job of "interim Prime Minister".

It's why Boris took so long to step up. Behind the scenes it must have been less like pass the parcel, and more like drop kick the parcel, hoping it landed a long, long away.

Clearly some sly backroom dealing (looks at Gove) needled Boris to finally grasp the nettle. In hindsight it's pretty obvious that his own self-opinion can be seen from space, so convincing him he was the right man for the job was a given. All that was then needed was a slight poke into his paranoia that someone else could beat him to it (looks at Gove) and the stage was set for the coronation of Boris we saw in July.

He really is trying to beat that narrative, but so far hasn't really done well. Mainly because he's not a natural - or even practiced - operator in the HoC.

It's safe to say that any honeymoon he might have had is over too. If he had gone for his election the moment he became PM, then things could have been very different. But he didn't.

DGRossetti · 25/10/2019 18:04

We don't hang draw and quarter people anymore. (We had to stop when people started arguing over wtf "drawing" was).

But the next best thing is to see a posh twat like Boris twisting in the wind on a gibbet of his own making, having decided to abandon any semblance of principles in a vainglorious pursuit of self aggrandisement. It might deter others without the need for Ceaușescu style ending.

youkiddingme · 25/10/2019 18:10

Since we haven't seen him sat in a ditch close to expiring yet, any hope of him getting indigestion at least:

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3613116/Ask-to-see-my-ID-card-and-Ill-eat-it.html?fbclid=IwAR3RD7mwGQATI33hrIRyxqisfvzxSs5W-v-bWq71-wgnnXSxf7Jukgz0r9A

NoWordForFluffy · 25/10/2019 18:21

Belated PMK as you've moved at some pace today!

Grinchly · 25/10/2019 18:30

Place catting

BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2019 18:31

There are billions to be made from a No Deal Brexit

If BJ doesn't deliver that, soon or after transition, "dead in a ditch" may not be just an extravangant phrase

Didn't his sister say she feared he was in hock to No Dealer hedge-funders ?

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