Westministenders: Sub-Prime Minister at large

[BigChocFrenzy]

Our Sub-Prime Minister BJ is threatening a govt tantrum strike until he is allowed his Haribo GE on 12 December.

If MPs vote for a GE, he has promised them "more time" to debate the WAB,
but that would only be from 29 October to 7 November

• ridiculously inadequate for such complex legislation -

before Parliament is automatically dissolved for the 25 sitting days before a GE.

The GE debate starts Monday 2:30 pm in the HoC
Corbyn says he'll agree to a GE if BJ takes No Deal off the table

BUT wIth this WA,
No deal cannot 100% be taken off the table whilst the Tories are in office:

they could still No Deal after transition ends on 31 December 2020,
if they don't request a transition by July.

We don't know when the EU will give their decision on an extension, or what it will be:

The EU may decide only after the HoC vote
- in which case MPs would be voting "blindly"

Tusk, Merkel & most other leaders want to grant the Flextension until 31 January,
but Macron & a few others want to give a short extension of only 2-4 weeks, to pressure MPs to pass the WA in November

• in which case the GE would take place shortly after Brexit, which would be a gift to BJ.

A 12 December GE would also cause serious logistical problems for local council officials:

Apart from their poll station bookings clashing with Xmas bookings for church halls & schools,

they are legally required to send out all the polling cards based on the current electoral roll,
then at the GE, check names against the new electoral roll which must be updated on 1 December

The Rebel Alliance want a long extension, so they have time to add amendments to the WAB,
e.g. a CU, the Level Playing Field agreement in May's WA, maybe even a PV
So many may want to vote against a GE before that ..... but what does Corbyn want ?

BJ as PM could still change the date of any GE after he has agreed to it, if it suits him.

What does BJ want ?
Alice Cooper said it:

"I'm your top prime cut of meat, I'm your choice
I wanna be elected
I'm your yankee doodle dandy in a gold Rolls Royce
I wanna be elected
Kids want a savior, don't need a fake

I wanna be elected
We're all gonna rock to the rules that I make
I wanna be elected, elected, elected..."

m.youtube.com/watch?v=cSvy8HpxFxo

• Post edited to correct dates

I had a dream last night

That Corbyn whipped Labour MPs to support a GE
and then immediately after the vote was called and Boris was still grinning
announced that he was standing down as an MP and that the PLP and NEC would choose an interim leader to fight the GE for Remain
and Gove threw up on the spot while there was total silence from the Tory benches.

Then I woke up.

I suspect because Johnson will get hammered in the polls if no deal is off the table.

At the minute there's too many people hoping he will win the election and push no deal through.

No matter how much he says he wants a deal - don't forget, despite most if not all major players in the vote leave campaign saying they wanted to leave with a deal, no deal is apparently what brexiters voted for... 🙄

A weary place cat.

Thank you RTB

What a beautiful dream...

About to head off to Ireland. Wonder what I'll hear there. ...

Clash are you happy with the proposals to sort the doctor issue? I thought they were changes to NHS pension scheme rules and possibly (?) doctor's contracts of service. I don't think either of these need Legislative changes?

Corbyn's neutrality might just help. Maybe. I don't know. If people have been watching performances, rather than reading news headlines, and haven't all entirely forgotten what the old Labour party looked like.

I think I am annoyed at everyone today. Johnson's mob, Corbyn, Macron, Larry the cat, everyone.

"Why can't no deal be taken off the table unless there's an election? What does the election do?"

tobee A GE gives the possibility of a non-Tory govt

If it is before brexit, then a Labour / coalition / C&S govt would try to negotiate a much softer WA and have a PV

If it is after Brexit, then at least they would negotiate a closer future trade deal with the EU and avoid No Deal

Otherwise, there is no law this Parliament can pass that a Tory govt can't repeal and then No Deal on 1 Jan 2021
(by not applying for an extension in July)

It is unrealistic to expect that this zombie govt situation can continue until July and force the PM to apply for an extension.
All political analysts currently agree that the Rebel Alliance cannot force a PV - not enough votes

What is important:
forcing a GE date that gives the best chance of defeating the Tories
and avoiding a date that suits them

bellini I was in transit in Ireland for my trip to the USA this week, both directions. Two things struck me. The first, and most forceful, was that both Dublin and Shannon (which is quite small) airports had US border pre-clearance. It was the clearest demonstration to me of the strength of US-Irish ties as opposed to US-UK. There are only 5 other airports in the world outside of Canada that have US border agents. Four of these are in the Caribbean, and the fifth in the UAE.

The second thing was that, as I have seen in other American cities, in the midwest and east in particular, is that Irish cultural references are everywhere. I've spent time in New York, Boston, and Chicago - loads of Irish pubs, street names, Irish flags, shamrocks, etc. Say to anyone white that you flew in via Ireland and they'll tell you all about their extended family/ancestry from that country.

The UK may have been a convenient English speaking 'landing pad' to Europe for the USA, and they may like our royal family, but there is a strength of feeling for Ireland that simply is not there for the UK.

One thing is for sure. One thing we are all agreed on, whichever side of the divisions you are on. We cannot carry on like this, with rich getting richer, media spreading lies, government run by propaganda. There is not much true alternative thinking around.

cannot Larry The Cat is innocent, OK.
< indignant >
nearly everyone else is guilty, though

BCF I would hope that a non-Tory gov't voted in a GE post-Brexit but pre end of transition would immediately legislate to amend the WAIB to allow for a closer trading relationship, customs union minimum, preferably single market. But I still think a GE pre-Brexit is the best chance of ameliorating this mess. It's also very risky.

more light relief ...DS meme of the day in a nod to heritage.

Thanks BigChocFrenzy

My head is spinning and I can’t keep up.

So

Are we leaving the EU next Thursday or what?

howabout they started down that route initially but it doesn't actually work how they thought it would. Due to the way the pension growth is calculated, only pensioning half the income doesn't equal half the growth (which they thought it would). So it is hugely difficult to calculate how much of the income should be pensioned before you know what the income is.

NHS business services and capita don't think they'd be able to cope with it and to be frank, they're not coping already.

It would, sort of, be a short term resolution for hospital doctors....until they realise they are either missing out on a lot of pension or miscalculating and still getting hit with tax bills. The calculations are ridiculous complex with a huge amount of variables - about 30% that I see the pension agency themselves have got wrong.

Totally useless for GPs in partnership who don't know what their superannable income is until after they have completed the superannuation certificates - which for the tax year ended 5 April 2019, will be in February 2020, which is no good - as they would have need to make a decision in April 2018 re what to pension.

So that idea is quietly dying a death and it is becoming apparent that a change in tax law, rather than the scheme, will be required - unless they allow them to decide what to pension retrospectively.

It's a huge mess - the legislation wasn't really designed for defined benefit schemes.

pmk

We're waiting Rhubarb, on the EU's decision regarding a delay to that process. And discussing whether that delay will be used for a General Election, or perhaps a People's Vote (seems to be drifting away a bit now that all the emphasis is on Johnson's tantrum).

but there is a strength of feeling for Ireland that simply is not there for the UK. Is this news? Back in the time of troubles, there were suggestions that America - or Americans at least - were funding the IRA. Ireland and America both share a certain status in regard to GB.

Pmk.

With any luck, lots of Leavers won't bother voting again.
Late January GE ?
Surely an extension to 31st January will not be enough.

Some ponder points. As usual, when Viz does bite, it bites hard ....

there were suggestions that America - or Americans at least - were funding the IRA.

It went well beyond suggestions.

Rhubarb: sajid has said the government has had to accept we won't be leaving on the 31st October. The question now is, when is the next deadline?

Sorry, that was rather a rant - it's a bit of a pet subject.

And I'm getting it in the neck on a daily basis about it!

Just dropping by to share some more [[
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1187651589345071104 important research]] on keywords that we've been doing using the Mumsnet Brexit section.