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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 20:12

Guy Verhofstadt@guyverhofstadt

Free movement of people is not the problem in our Union.

The real problem is the lack of safe, legal migration routes leading to 39 deaths.

Whatever happens next in Brexit:
the EU and UK need a common approach to prevent these tragedies from happening.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 20:14

😂😂 It may indeed be a factor !

Guy Verhofstadtt@guyverhofstadt*

You’re all thinking:
another extension.

I am thinking:
another three weeks listening to Farage

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 20:15

Despite that:

Guy Verhofstadt@guyverhofstadt

The @Europarl_EN's Brexit Steering Group met today & is of the opinion that a flextension, not going beyond the 31st Jan, is the only way forward.

This is an important agreement & the European Parliament needs time to scrutinise in detail, especially concerning citizens rights.

MockersthefeMANist · 23/10/2019 20:16

...So BJ is on the phone trying to get Macron and/or Merkel to kick us out, and Kazynsky is most likely doing the same talking to his fascist mates.

NoWordForFluffy · 23/10/2019 20:23

You will unsurprised to learn 55% of leavers were in the ‘diehard’ category whereas only 17% of remainers were.

Stubbornness and a refusal to compromise is also a massive problem.

Hence me thinking the BXP will do relatively well in an ejection (well enough to cost the Tories some seats).

TheMShip · 23/10/2019 20:27

Hence me thinking the BXP will do relatively well in an ejection (well enough to cost the Tories some seats).

I approve of your typo fluffy. Hope some of those ERG types are ejected....

Ellie56 · 23/10/2019 20:30

I am thinking:
another three weeks listening to Farage Grin Grin

Does he mean another three months?

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 20:33

Connelly: Varadkar backs Tusk call for Brexit extension to 31 January

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit-countdown/2019/1023/1085112-brexit-extension/

Mr Varadkar said the EU Council may have to meet on Monday or possibly even Friday to decide whether to grant an extension to the UK.

He said he believes the possibility of a no-deal Brexit on 31 October is "reasonably remote"
but the Government will continue to prepare for it.

He said if the withdrawal agreement between the UK and the EU is ratified
there will be no significant impact on the Irish economy until at least the end of next year.

Mr Varadkar said the transition period, which is basically a stand still arrangement, runs until the end of 2020 and may be extended
to allow for ratification as it will have to be approved by the parliaments of 27 EU member states and also some regional assemblies.

Addressing a gathering of business leaders in Belfast, Mr Coveney said
the terms of the agreement between the UK and EU presented an "exciting and genuine opportunity" for Northern Ireland to prosper.
....
Meanwhile, the DUP's Brexit spokesperson said there will have to be a Brexit extension until 31 January.^
Sammy Wilson said that his party hopes to use that time to scrutinise the bill and "reverse some of the really bad decisions that have been made".

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 20:34

Ellie This has been taken as a hint - or he's playing games - that we'll only get a short extension

NoWordForFluffy · 23/10/2019 20:35

I approve of your typo fluffy. Hope some of those ERG types are ejected....

Jeez. Autocorrect is almost as much of a fucking wanker as BoZo.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 20:41

Jason Keen**@Jason_Keen (BBC)

Justice Secretary @RobertBucklandd^ tells @afneill^

the Government will seek to use any Brexit extension to hold a General Election before Christmas.

#andrewneilshow

borntobequiet · 23/10/2019 20:44

I posted earlier about a conversation I had at lunchtime. I forgot to say that the person I spoke to - working in construction - was of the opinion that we were in, to all intents and purposes, a civil war. It was this observation that led me to sit down and continue the discussion. (Plus he was nice looking.)

lonelyplanetmum · 23/10/2019 20:48

Born! Good on you for chatting though.

I've had a few chats with more distant friends neighbours recently. What shocked me was two of them ( ex senior military) and marketing person for an investmenty institution had such superficial knowledge.

frumpety · 23/10/2019 20:52

OhYouBadBadKitten I am going to call it and say snow in February, 48hrs worth and the country will grind to a halt, even though it will have been forecast, but Jo in her fiesta believes that the snow pixies will smooth her journey, until she grinds to a halt in 4 inches of snow on the M6 Grin

dontcallmelen · 23/10/2019 20:54

PMK as always many thanks to Red & all contributors.
Awful awful news about those poor souls in the lorry.
Did anyone catch channel four news tonight! Peter Oborn was on complaining about the MSM but only caught the tail end of it.

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living
derxa · 23/10/2019 21:04

Did anyone catch channel four news tonight! Peter Oborn was on complaining about the MSM but only caught the tail end of it. He was complaining about No 10 'sources' using people like Laura K, Peston and political journalists as mouth pieces.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 21:04

Yep even his own Cabinet don't bother to hide that BJ is a liar / ignoramus

Jason Keenn@Jason*_Keen

“There will be some checks”

Justice Secretary @RobertBuckland confirms there will be checks on goods moving between Great Britain and Northern Ireland under Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal.

The PM has said there will be ‘no checks’.

#andrewneilshow

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 21:06

Peter Oborne gives a lot of detail in this article:

British journalists have become part of Johnson’s fake news machine

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/british-journalists-have-become-part-of-johnsons-fake-news-machine/

Tanith · 23/10/2019 21:12

"Justice Secretary @RobertBuckland confirms there will be checks on goods moving between Great Britain and Northern Ireland under Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal."

It's my understanding that this was a sealed refrigerated food trailer. If it's opened and checked, it would be rejected at destination as having been tampered with. The driver couldn't have known, or checked, the contents of the trailer he picked up.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 21:13

Nick Cohen also goes after No.10 anonymous sources:

Meet Dominic Slack-Oxley: the biggest source of fake news in Britain

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/meet-dominic-slack-oxley-the-biggest-source-of-fake-news-in-britain/amp/?

TheCaddyisaBaddie · 23/10/2019 21:13

Pmk

Basilpots · 23/10/2019 21:13

Typo Fluff Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 21:17

Checks on goods from GB to NI will be made as required in the WA
and checks from NI to GB may also be required for UK laws

These are checks on goods
Nothing to do with checking for hidden migrants and mostly the checks won't help this problem

MarshaBradyo · 23/10/2019 21:18

I saw that Ready for Brexit 31st Oct advert the other day. They’re going to hate it if they have to put a sticker over the date and wheel it out again.