Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
Mistigri · 23/10/2019 21:19

That Oborne interview on C4 is extraordinary.

"This gang of ... feral smear merchants".

Brave and principled man, with whom I suspect that I would disagree on almost everything.

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 23/10/2019 21:19

So, if there's an election anytime before the 31st January 2020 then surely that valuable time will be spent electioneering instead of focusing on the small matter of brexit details and then whoops we're not ready so no deal?

Mistigri · 23/10/2019 21:22

I'm about 80% sure that this isn't the last extension.

DGRossetti · 23/10/2019 21:22

Sajids past ..

www.sajidjavid.com/news/sajid-javid-only-thing-leaving-eu-guarantees-lost-decade-british-business

I was somewhere in West London, meeting with one of the area’s many television companies, when the EU Single Market really began to make more sense.

I was Culture Secretary at the time, and the company’s chief executive was explaining why they’d chosen the UK for their main base outside North America.

It had a lot to do with wealth of creative talent here. But the clincher was the Single Market – it meant they could broadcast to up to half a billion viewers across 28 countries and only have to deal with regulators in the UK. Thanks to common standards across Europe, they didn’t have to worry about meeting the demands of dozens of different local bureaucrats.

It was a similar story when I worked in financial services. If I wanted to seal a deal in, say, Paris, all I had to do was hop on a train, get the paperwork signed and head home again. My biggest worry was whether I’d be back in time to put the kids to bed.

DGRossetti · 23/10/2019 21:23

Sajids present ...

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-50-pence-coins-delay-a9168306.html

Plans for millions of 50p coins to commemorate Brexit day have been thrown into doubt after MPs derailed Boris Johnson's chances of fast-tracking his deal through parliament by Halloween.

Sajid Javid, the chancellor, announced plans for new coins to mark Brexit earlier this year – shortly before Mr Johnson won the Conservative leadership contest – following enthusiastic calls from Conservative MPs.

(contd)

DGRossetti · 23/10/2019 21:24

So, if there's an election anytime before the 31st January 2020 then surely that valuable time will be spent electioneering instead of focusing on the small matter of brexit details and then whoops we're not ready so no deal?

Bearing in mind the UK was told not to waste the extension from June ...

Mistigri · 23/10/2019 21:25

Link to the Oborne interview.

www.channel4.com/news/peter-oborne-downing-street-putting-out-fake-news

I feel that this is really quite an important moment. Oborne is a Daily Mail man, and a member of the Brexit establishment (before his late conversion).

Hoooo · 23/10/2019 21:26

Oh ffs Angry
I honestly don't know what I think should happen now well I do, but that's not gonna happen!
What would be better?
Extension?
PV?
GE?
I simply don't know anymore.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 23/10/2019 21:41

Have they just voted to sell the nhs down the river if the opportunity arises?

The LibDems abstained(?) being the piss yellow tories that they are Hmm

Or am I reacting to some fake news?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 23/10/2019 21:43

Jeremy Corbyn
@jeremycorbyn
· 1h
The Tories just voted against Labour's motion to safeguard our NHS from being sold off to US corporations in a Johnson-Trump trade deal. And the @LibDems, who voted to privatise the NHS when in coalition, abstained.

Yeah they abstained, all those clamouring for people to vote for them you ok with this, or is the election really going to be about Brexit for you? Tories in all but name

OhYouBadBadKitten · 23/10/2019 21:47

Grin frumpety you may not be too far from the truth.

ListeningQuietly · 23/10/2019 21:47

The Labour amendment asked for the repeal of the 2012 Lansley Act
which is not an appropriate use of a Queen's speech amendment

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 21:47

If the LDems really abstained on protecting the NHS; then that is absolutely shameful,
but I need more info

Apileofballyhoo · 23/10/2019 21:53

Boris Johnson does two different types of capital 'I' when writing in the first person.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 21:55

John Mann MP is a Labour Leaver, but he is also personally unpleasant to Remainer MPs - which is unnecessary:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/watch-john-mann-heckles-anna-soubry-itll-get-rid-of-you/

A general election will solve nothing,’ Anna Soubry has just told the Commons.

But it seems not all of her parliamentary colleagues agree.

Labour MP John Mann responded to Soubry by repeatedly yelling out:
‘It will get rid of you’

It’s safe to say Soubry was not impressed:

‘Can I just say actually, I don’t mind losing my job but I do care about the jobs of my constituents…
and that’s why this matter must now go back for that people’s vote now we have the clarity on Brexit and we see what a disaster it is.’

lonelyplanetmum · 23/10/2019 21:57

According to the Labour website Its amendment to the Queen's Speech expresses parliament’s regret that the speech: “[D]oes not repeal the Health and Social Care Act 2012 to restore a publicly provided and administered National Health Service and protect it from future trade agreements that would allow private companies competing for services who put profit before public health and that could restrict policy decisions taken in the public interest.”

JustAnotherPoster00 · 23/10/2019 22:03

John Mann MP is a Labour Leaver, but he is also personally unpleasant to Remainer MPs - which is unnecessary

He is an absolute twunt, I dont think he's standing again thank fuck

DarkAtEndOfUk · 23/10/2019 22:09

News about media distortion and the huge industry that is Public Relations and Communications is not a new thing. I think it started going possibly back in the 80s, was certainly late 90s. "Flat Earth News" by Nick Davies is from 2009. It won't hurt to have public exposure of how bad things have become, nor to have public recognition of the importance of communication channels. We used to know instinctively: it's what the BBC should be standing against.

borntobequiet · 23/10/2019 22:27

I have the greatest admiration for Anna Soubry. I can’t say I always agree with her politically, but she’s a standout example of female courage in the face of aggression.

JeSuisPoulet · 23/10/2019 22:31

Another day of everything I touch turning to merde here. Men blaming other men and me and then the men again...yawn. 3 days until puppy, which may be making it all rather more stressful than is strictly required.

On the plus side I've since had a lot of wine and my labour supporting friend and I decided that as a stealth move, Corbyn will agree to an election, let the campaign run and then with 3 days to spare, do a dramatic downstep into a backbencher role and leave the crown to Starmer. Little chance the media would keep up with the hate campaign there we think.

It may be part wish...

SwedishEdith · 23/10/2019 22:33

I thought this was interesting yesterday.

Sunder Katwala
@sundersays
One election risk.

  • Cons targeting pro-Leave Labour seats. (Several of those MPs just backed Brexit deal; may provide insulation) Winning those specific seats does not* increase Brexit Bill majority. (Others would)
  • But winning those + losing other seats to SNP, LDs cuts it!
placemats · 23/10/2019 22:35

So, what to all intents and purposes was a Bulgarian Lorry driving on UK Roads was in fact owned and run by a Northern Ireland company using the lax Bulgarian regs to avoid UK Insurance, tax, vehicle inspections and the rest

Listening

The company was registered to a company in Monaghan, which is in Ireland. Not N. Ireland, that's where the driver came from.

SwedishEdith · 23/10/2019 22:37

Which links to this

emily m
@maitlis

Am I the last to wonder if PM deliberately took workers rights guarantees out of WAB so that when JC raised it he could add them back in and look like compromise ? Or is that a conspiracy too far ..

Which means more Lab MPs back his deal as looks like he's moved? They wouldn't be so naive, surely?

borntobequiet · 23/10/2019 22:40

Ha ha Swedish of course they would.

JeSuisPoulet · 23/10/2019 22:40

Swedish the workers rights part is what is getting most media attention. I wouldn't be amazed if this (him apparently capitulating) is part of the Bozo boost. I also wouldn't be amazed if him allowing that looses some ERG support though.