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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 23:26

Britain Elects
@britainelects
·
1m
Melksham Without South (Wiltshire) result:

CON: 60.4% (+5.1)
LDEM: 39.6% (+21.5)

Conservative HOLD.

No UKIP (-13.9) and Ind (-12.7) as prev.

yolofish · 24/10/2019 23:26

Can I just please add, again, the FUCKING ARROGANCE of 'you can scrutinise the bill just so long as you give me an election'. I mean, wtf thinks like that? Answers on a postcard to 10 Downing St, W1, etc etc.

tobee · 24/10/2019 23:27

Also it doesn't make any sense yolo

yolofish · 24/10/2019 23:29

I've given up looking for sense tobee...

DGRossetti · 24/10/2019 23:29

If that's so, surely the Liberals/LibDems/SDLP would have been in power far more than they have been

FPTP innit ? Sad

It's basically the sensible people spread evenly, while you get pockets of extremes crowding them out.

Look at how many votes they poll compared to the seats they get.

tobee · 24/10/2019 23:29

Honestly, I gave myself the evening to finish off the book I'm reading. I've barely read half a page. Confused

lonelyplanetmum · 24/10/2019 23:30

Thanks everyone ...

Surely there must be some Tory voters who understand that a 100 page Bill of this import needs debate and scrutiny? Surely there can't be tens of millions of Tories who think setting an arbitrary deadline of three days to pass complex legislation is good governance?

Surely there must be some voters who think illegally suspending parliament or threats to suspend parliamentary business are unstatesmanlike?

Surely there are some who understand that the opposition 'blocks' to the government are not obstructions but are to lock in protections against no deal or to secure democratic votes on feasible amendments?

Surely there are some who think insisting on a departure date rather than adjusting by a few days is childish and churlish?

Is there any chance that by fussing about all this timing and electioneering ( rather than the substance of a trade deal ) Johnson has lost some of the more insightful Tories?

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 23:32

@red Something else which concerns me about a GE

BJ lies and his supports don't care
So maybe he is lying about a GE date before Christmas

Even assuming - which is not 100% certain . that the EU give us a 31 Jan extension and not one to say end Ă´f November .....

Under the FTPA the PM "advises" the Queen on the GE date
How much discretion / time limit does he have ?

==> Q: Could BJ choose Thursday 3 Feb .... an automatic No Deal Brexit ?

Tanith · 24/10/2019 23:33

But that still doesn't add up, DGRossetti.

researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7529

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 23:36

oops wrong year in calendar Blush
Thursday 6 Feb 2020 for GE date

Ellie56 · 24/10/2019 23:38

You would hope so, Lonely. He is a disgrace to the office.

For all her failings, Theresa May never behaved so appallingly or treated people with such disrespect.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 23:40

lonely Brexit seems to have switched off normal common sense and moderation in most Tory / leave voters

Look at the something like 70% of both,
who would accept breaking up the Uk and making us all poorer if that is what it takes to Brexit
The significant %, however leading the questions, who would accept violence against opposition politicians

Once they accept that, not allowing more time to study a bill is trivial

tobee · 24/10/2019 23:43

I assume plenty of Tory voters will be like the members who voted him in. See him as a "winner" although god knows how given his PM performance up to now.

FoldyRoll · 24/10/2019 23:48

Vince Cable on Twitter: Amazing. Won the lottery. no 7 in private members ballot. Can introduce new law. Inclined to do #assisteddying or #votesat16. Hope Parliament lasts long enough
^
^
Fingers crossed he gets that chance. Replies are overwhelmingly in favour of votes at 16. And this is the opposition parties' best chance.

prettybird · 25/10/2019 00:13

He's not going to be able to anything with it Sad as there will be a GE sooner rather than later. Either would be a worth Bill.

prettybird · 25/10/2019 00:27

worthy (Blush)

HesterThrale · 25/10/2019 00:51

I do think this is a generally good-natured thread.

Election could be interesting in NI. Two DUP MPs have majorities of 2,000 (inc Nigel Dodds) and another of 3,000.

I wonder how that could play out?

woodpigeons · 25/10/2019 01:15

Hopefully Boris will continue digging himself into a big hole.
Preferably in a ditch.

TheABC · 25/10/2019 02:06

@Foldyroll, you have highlighted a good point. If Johnson does put official Government business on strike, could that mean more time for opposition Bills as highlighted by Vince Cable?

Unexpected silver linings and all that....

GingerPCatt · 25/10/2019 03:44

Also could the opposition (or rebel) Tories try to bring the WA forward for debate and even put it to a vote knowing they’ll vote against?

NoWordForFluffy · 25/10/2019 05:44

Pretzels, if there IS an election, there'll be a push to get people registered to vote beforehand. It only takes 2 minutes online.

Council tax / housing / election stuff are all separate departments and don't communicate with each other, so even if two of them know she's moved, that won't amend the Roll.

Doing it online now should get her on it next month.

mathanxiety · 25/10/2019 05:57

SF and the SDLP need to start talking to each other in NI.

NoWordForFluffy · 25/10/2019 06:30

Is it possible for the opposition to bring TM's WA back and then sort the WAIB out how they like it while BoZo (the wanker) is off doing his toddler tantrum and having his nappy changed?

How is the strike even going to work? It's utterly farcical and pathetic.

If this was in previous times and it was another government in a different country, our government would've condemned it. Oh how times have changed.

lonelyplanetmum · 25/10/2019 06:53



lonelyplanetmum · 25/10/2019 06:55

Sorry failed link. Has anyone actually read the PMs loosely drafted letter to Corbyn asking for an election? It's on Johnson's Twitter. Three pages of repetition and hyperbole.

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