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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
yolofish · 24/10/2019 22:47

Personally, these threads are the first place I come to find out what is actually happening, and for unbiased opinion. Some I agree with (remain remain or at best the least worst BRINO!) and others I dont - eg I dont think Labour would be the total disaster that some predict. For me, anything but the Tories would work at the moment, and I wish Nicola Sturgeon could take over the whole UK... is it OK to say again that Boris Johnson and his ilk are wankers, wankstains, wankbadgers etc?

TheABC · 24/10/2019 22:52

I totally get the despair, anger and exhaustion of everyone following Brexit on this thread. It's akin to climate change except we are waiting on the outcomes of other people playing with our lives (and frankly ignoring us, most of the time). At least with the Great Carbon Disaster, you can take small steps such as diet changes or cycling instead of driving, to help out.

It's the helplessness in the face of bring told "this is what we wanted" that sucks so badly. I do include soft Leavers as well as Remainers in that equation.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/10/2019 22:54

Britain Elects
@britainelects
·
40s
Llandrindod North (Powys) result:

LDEM: 47.2% (+47.2)
CON: 34.2% (-19.6)
LAB: 18.6% (-1.2)

Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

No Green (-26.5) as prev.

prettybird · 24/10/2019 22:55

If there is a GE soon, then we'll get to enjoy the lovely Alyn Smith at WM (its gain will be the EU Parliament's loss Sad) as he is standing in the Stirling constituency (and has apparently already been out campaigning regularly). The seat is currently held by the wanker Conservative Stephen Kerr with a majority of 148 Wink

Bye bye Grin

Peregrina · 24/10/2019 22:58

So there was no LibDem last time in Llandrindod? The Brecon and Radnor effect kicked in - winning elections is good for parties, it helps to increase their membership.

Mistigri · 24/10/2019 23:00

I agree with some of Labour's policies. But there is some big stuff there that will need competent ministers to implement. And with the best will in the world, the shadow cabinet is not awash with talent.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 23:03

Andrew Lilicoo@andrew*_lilico

"Vote for Boris' deal or the Nativity Plays get it!"

tobee · 24/10/2019 23:06

I'd rather someone who lives in their own world and is oblivious to the lives of most people around them voting Labour/non Tory though. They need all the help they can get. They are not the people I judge. Can't stand the idea that Labour has some kind of cut off if people are too wealthy. Inverted snobbery is pretty blinkered.

lonelyplanetmum · 24/10/2019 23:10

I know the threads move fast etc but can I repeat my request for anyone to explain what today's Johnson threat is.

Ie it's you can have more time to debate the bill if you you give me a GE.

Or what?

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 23:13

Yes, tobee.

Apileofballyhoo · 24/10/2019 23:16

I didn't think the tone was that bad. I do find it interesting when people describe themselves as centrist but seem quite left wing to me. Maybe I don't know what a centrist is.

US Republicans probably think One Nation Tories are communists.

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 23:17

In a nutshell, lonely.

At the moment, the Bill is withdrawn & we haven't heard back from the EU about an extension.

He's also threatening to just half all Parliamentary business if he doesn't get his election.

Macron is manoeuvring, so there's a potential spanner in the works.

Labour appears to be quite riven about the idea of a GE.

TheABC · 24/10/2019 23:17

On the positive front:

  • Despite the Boris Bounce, Labour and Lib Dems have been quietly winning council seats and defecting MPs.
  • The SNP continues to poll strongly in Scotland, so I can't see the Tories doing any better in that country than they are presently.
  • Hell hath no fury than the DUP scorned. Plus, in the event of a hung Parliament it's less likely the Conservatives will get help from other parties.
  • There won't be a BXP+Tory alliance. Instead we could be treated to the delicious spectacle of Farage taking votes away from Johnson
  • Take every poll with a pot of salt. The Tories are likely to win under FPTP, but no one can fully account for tactical voting or an unusual winter election. I think it will discourage older and more vulnerable voters, along with frankly overwhelmed family organisers.
  • Boris has been living below my expectations, even with a clear platform and no real challenges. I think he is ripe to be picked apart by better politicians. Even in the honeymoon period, it's worth noting his popularity rating is less than his predecessors.

Failing that, its happening whilst we can still get our hands on gin.

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 23:18

Halt not half.

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 23:19

And another positive:

The Conservative plan to pick up seats in 'Northern Labour heartlands' is pure wishful thinking.

DGRossetti · 24/10/2019 23:21

So the UK apes the US with a shutdown ?

prettybird · 24/10/2019 23:21

His "or what" is to go on a governmental strike and/or set up a Groundhog Day, bringing nothing but the FTPA request back to Parliament day after day and to stop all other government motions Shock. Really mature HmmAngry

He's apparently already pulled the Budget Bill.

Essentially, the wanker is pulling a toddler tantrum, lying on the floor pounding it with his puny fists and wailing, "Give it to me now. I want it. Give it. Want it. Waaaaah." Hmm

GaspodeWonderCat · 24/10/2019 23:22

lonelyplanetmum - an extra few days to agree my 'great' deal.Then we have a GE and if you don't agree I am not going to let parliament discuss anything until you do agree. So there ...

That is BJ (the wanker) threat. [head in hands in despair at what we have come to}

Icantreachthepretzels · 24/10/2019 23:22

while election staff working in polling stations would be checking names off against the new version of the list

My sister has just moved house last week. She had filled in the electoral register for her old house just as the moving date came in. She hasn't filled anything electoral specific for the new house but obviously the council know she is somewhere different now. Does this mean she will automatically be changed on the electoral register - or do you have to contact them to tell them specifically? And is there a way to check whether you're on the electoral register, yourself?

And - taking the new system overlap disenfranchising people into account - if she does have to inform them separately, would she be as well just not mentioning it until after the election?
She's only moved down the road - so is probably in the same constituency, though probably with a different polling station, but she can easily get back to her old one.
Seems like she's probably a prime suspect for falling off both lists if she tries to get herself registered somewhere else between now and a December election.
Any ideas what she should do for the best?

tobee · 24/10/2019 23:23

It's not so much the threads moving fast lonely as, I think, we don't really know.

Johnson, like a textbook thug, is hoping to get his way just by putting his fists up.

lonelyplanetmum · 24/10/2019 23:25

Thanks thecat threatening no parliamentary business Sounds a bit childish and doesn't give great leverage as far as I can see.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 23:25

Lonely It's actually giving v little extra time for debate:

When a GE is called, there is normally a short "washup,"
during which govt & opposition see if they can agree on rushing through any bills started but not completed

However, even assuming all the remaining time is devoted to WA / WAB,
that's only Oct 29 to Nov 7

and within that time, everything has to pass 3 readings plus HoL, plus Royal Assent,

Tanith · 24/10/2019 23:25

Oh I don't know: I think it does the world of good to have a little bust up and clear the air.

I would just like to add the following thoughts, though.

I believe that Corbyn voted Remain more readily than I believe that Johnson voted Leave.

I'm dubious that the UK prefers centralists.
If that's so, surely the Liberals/LibDems/SDLP would have been in power far more than they have been?
If my memory serves me right, they haven't been in power for over 100 years except as a Coalition government with the Conservatives and, briefly, as a LibLab pact in the 70s.

tobee · 24/10/2019 23:26

Didn't Theresa make a play for the Labour northern heartlands? Brexit Party are still going for that so hopefully more right wing split there.

DGRossetti · 24/10/2019 23:26

Meanwhile ....

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