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Brexit

Westminstenders: Don't and Keep Living

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2019 13:19

Status Recall as of approx 1

Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement (The WA) :
Currently parliamentary session blocked in its current form due to being nodded through (government accept defeat without vote). It can not be represented to the house without changes (which the EU will not allow - unless perhaps it reverts back to May's WA) or a 'substantive change of circumstances' (eg another party says they will support it and there is reason to believe Johnson now has a clear majority).

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill (The WAB):
The withdrawal agreement bill is purely about how the WA will be carried out in UK law. It passed its 2nd reading which is merely a indication of interest of support for the bill. The next stage is where amendments can be made and this is most relevant to the political declaration which accompanies the WA settlement.

This however has hit a road block due to the government recklessly and foolishly trying to push such an important and far reaching bill through in a ridiculous time frame, which no one could possibly give proper scrutiny to.

If Johnson wants a deal in the best int3of the country its an essential part of the process regardless of which side of the fence you sit. Failure to spot problems could leave us shafted by other countries later down the line.

The timetable is now under review and negotiation with Corbyn.

The extension with the EU:
The EU president has signaled he would support an extension. This is in part because issues in London mean it is highly unlikely the EU will be able to ratify a deal by next Thursday even if they have an emergency meeting. It's in their interests to extend in some way.

Going along with the Benn Act is the politically least risky option, though France are making growling noises about it.

Two issues spring up with this. The first is the issue of the UK having no EU Commissioner after 1st Nov and the second is the EU budget runs until 31st Dec 2019.

The Queens Speech:
The government as it stands might struggle to pass the QS especially with the DUP off side. It failing to pass is, in some ways, a good thing for Johnson. The speech was essentially a manifesto and blocking it is a good electioneering strategy. It also puts pressure on the opposition for a Vote of No Confidence.

There are already rumblings following the passing of the 2nd reading of the WAB and the EU signally they are open to an extension that some in Labour (including crucially Corbyn) do think they must agree to a GE in the autumn.

A Vonc is still unlikely to happen until the EU formalise the extension and the EU are unlikely to do this until its clear what Johnson's next move with the WAB is. Johnson meanwhile doesn't want to agree to a longer timetable as that ruins his do or die speech and facilitates an extension. So expect some brinkmanship over timings here. We might not get a formal extension approved until the wire.

The GE:
All Brexit is currently about is manoeuvring to win the next GE. It must be seen in this context.

Polling suggests that an extension without the WA is bad for Johnson and he is likely to lose support to the Brexit Party. There is an ever shrinking likelihood of the WA going through before 31st Oct, if its not impossible already. Thus Johnson needs to see if he can get the WA through very quickly after an extension but before a GE.

This reasonably lines up with Labour's problems. Before the WA goes through a GE looks bad for them with them haemorrhaging support to the LDs and the the Brexit Party.

If they are seen to facilitate the WA passing before an election then there may also be a sense of betrayal amongst their majority remain supporters but it might let them off with the Brexit Party threat particularly in the Midlands.

Meanwhile the SNP have an increasing desire for a GE. They look like they will clean up in Scotland and it might be their last chance now to stop Brexit. Similar logic applies to the LDs.

Thus the chances of a GE shoot up once an extension is granted, but the Cons and Labour have a mutual self interest in getting a deal done ASAP before a GE in many ways.

This of course would probably suit the French and therefore the EU.

Which is why a deal before 15th Nov and by the 15th Dec, isnt unrealistic. A GE might come before Christmas but I think both the Cons and Lab have something of an interest in letting the dust settle and getting new messaging in to head off threats from the LDs and Brexit Party. I'd be more inclined to say a Feb election tbh.

Anyway things may have changed since I started typing this up given how quickly things are moving.

But despite the headlines that Brexit is in pergortory it is now slowly rolling forward and now has some momentum behind it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 17:49

It passed?

ContinuityError · 24/10/2019 17:50

Queen's Speech passes.

Ayes 310
Noes 294

prettybird · 24/10/2019 17:50

310 for the Gov
284 noes Sad
16 majority for the government.

prettybird · 24/10/2019 17:51

Sorry - 294. Typo Blush

OhYouBadBadKitten · 24/10/2019 17:52

what's happened with the QS? I missed it with work.

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 24/10/2019 17:53

Unless they need to pee then MPs should be required to stay in the chamber the bloody ignorant funts.

PotterHead1985 · 24/10/2019 17:53

Aye 310. Noes 294

AutumnCrow · 24/10/2019 17:53

That's a shit load of abstentions

OhYouBadBadKitten · 24/10/2019 17:53

how did it pass? Is it because they don't want a VONC?!

NoWordForFluffy · 24/10/2019 17:54

Possibly, OYBBK. If we had an extension already it may have been different. But why abstain? What's the significance of that?

mrslaughan · 24/10/2019 17:55

@tobee - about momentum wanting an election......I know the polls show with an extension- labour squeaks in ...... but wait longer I think that lead will get bigger. The tide maybe turning - but I still don't think it's a shoo-in.... esp once the dis-information campaign is ramped up

CurlyWurlyTwirly · 24/10/2019 17:57

Dreading the chaos when John Bercow leaves

runningintothesunset · 24/10/2019 17:57

I’d love it if Farage and Johnson we’re competing for the same seat, split the vote so neither got in and someone sensible got it instead Grin Oh how I dream...

runningintothesunset · 24/10/2019 17:58

Were not we’re - stupid phone

MockersthefeMANist · 24/10/2019 17:58

A thought occurs:

Bercow goes on 31/10

In the absence of a speaker, the House is chaired by the Father of the House, from the clerk's chair, until a new speaker is confirmed, by election or acclaimation.

I say we stick with Ken for a bit.

Emilyontmoor · 24/10/2019 17:59

On austerity, one of the reasons the Libdems went into coalition is that austerity was their policy, and whatever your personal views it was not an unpopular policy even with liberals (small l), it helped win elections, nor if it had been implemented fairly was it a policy that would have not been consistent with good government for the best for the country. As a party I am sure they felt they were enabling stable government to address the issues facing the country (I can't answer for Nick Clegg's ego). There was a genuine issue after the financial crisis and a need for good government to address it, albeit that there were alternative economic solutions.

The problem was that the Libdems underestimated the extent to which it was an umbrella for a Tory ideology which sought to undermine the welfare state, and wider role of the state in the NHS and education, whilst minimising the impact on the corporate world and the better off, which free of the coalition they pursued free of any social conscience. As Red has highlighted it left many bubbles of, mainly Tory, middle class complacency who had no direct experience of the consequences, who actually formed the rump of the leave vote. The Tories also playing to that crowd as defenders against the EU and immigration is why we are where we are.

I didn't agree with austerity having any impact on the poorest part of our society but lets not mistake the policy as the culprit / bogeyman. It's a squirrel. That was Tory ideology which is now being dressed up in populist new clothes.

ContinuityError · 24/10/2019 17:59

Is that faint booming noise the sound of the EUCO27 banging their heads on the table mumbling “make it stop”?

AutumnCrow · 24/10/2019 18:00

There's a bloody good Lib Dem candidate in Johnson's Uxbridge seat

OhYouBadBadKitten · 24/10/2019 18:03

please no election mid December. What a nightmare for canvassing and stuff.

Ellie56 · 24/10/2019 18:03

Grin Grin at the idea of Bozo the Clown losing his seat.

I hope the odious Mark Francois loses his too.

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 18:04

Problem with Uxbridge is that it's a Con versus Lab seat.

Lab only lost by a small margin in Ucbridge but it's hard to see where they'd pick up the extra votes.

Lib Dem's would have to move mountains in Uxbridge.

It's a tricky one. Genuinely.

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 18:05

Which is depressing because I want Johnson to lose his seat.

prettybird · 24/10/2019 18:06

Can you imagine the canvassing up in Orkney and Shetland? Shock

There will be barely any daylight Hmm

thecatfromjapan · 24/10/2019 18:06

Kitten Yes. ☹️

mrslaughan · 24/10/2019 18:07

@thecatfromjapan a but what if the brexit party genuinely splits the vote to the right? labour wins? Think we would all be happy with that?

(Who is the Labour candidate? Do we know?)