Brexit Arms

[time4chocolate]

Not much else to say really 🍷🍷🍷

Do you think we will hear anything from the EU today?

My preference is a short technical extension but I’d take 3 months if it meant we could actually get a GE out of it.

What’s all this nonsense about Ken Clarke amending to include 16 yr old voters? What a joke.

Right. Well, if 16 yr olds can vote in an election that affects the entire country, then why stop there. Lower the drinking age, lower the driving age, lower the marriage age, lower the mortgage age, Etc... by allowing them a vote, you are accepting they are full adults. Why not change that across the board. Bonkers. These politicians really are desperate.

The remainers shout “you didn’t know what you voted for”. “Brexiteers have less education” etc... And yet somehow giving 16 yr olds who haven’t even completed their GCSE’s yet a vote is acceptable? The double think is mind blowing.

I mean seriously, when I was 16, I only cared about my social life, music, getting into clubs illegally and having sex with totally inappropriate people. Hardly the epitome of measured, thoughtful and politically aware. Whilst I acceot there may be a few rare 16 yr olds out there that pay attention to politics and have half a clue. I would wager the vast majority either don’t care or don’t understand and will in turn therefore just vote as an extension of their parents or teachers.

If I’m honest, I’m not even sure 18 is old enough. But I accept that we legally recognise 18 yr olds as adults, so therefore it follows that they should have full representation. The same is not true of 16 yr olds.

You aren't even allowed direct debits when you're under 18!

when I was 16, I only cared about my social life, music, getting into clubs illegally and having sex with totally inappropriate people. Hardly the epitome of measured, thoughtful and politically aware.

😂😂😂

Me too!

Halcyon days ❤️

I don’t think you have any right to be angry at all.

Pardon me? She can be angry about what the fuck she likes!! The nerve!

“As you say, it is indeed nonsense.”

You might want to inform that bastion of factual reporting on brexit that is Westministenders then. That’s where I discovered it.

If its #fakenews they may want to know.

I don’t think you have any right to be angry at all.
Perhaps you could read it again and ask yourself how it sounds to remainers now, and ask yourself why they should support it beyond “because I said so”.

I didn't say that.

As a politician once said “the function of the opposition is to oppose”, so to resent being opposed when you don’t have a majority is silly.

They are not merely opposing though. Over 80% of MPs were elected with a promise that they respected the result of the ref & would enact it. The majority of those who did so under the Labour banner, and a minority of those who did so under the Tory banner lied. They have instead actively worked to subvert the ref result & block Brexit.

As I say, imho your anger is wildly misplaced.

And I disagree with your opinion.

As I say, imho your anger is wildly misplaced

Is it?
Thought I would bring this across from last thread.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/%5Bm.youtube.com/watch?v=jHwPsdOZUMk" target="blank">www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016/%5Bm.youtube.com/watch?v=jHwPsdOZUMk

😂😂😂

You aren't even allowed direct debits when you're under 18

Yes you can.

And you can get married at 16 - you don’t even need parental consent in Scotland.

You can join the army at 16.

You can pay income tax at 16.

That vid def makes me cross Time4

Will be shared widely during any GE, I'm sure

Yes you can.

Soz - my mistake - my 17 yr old wasn't allowed one for his gym membership, his bank said he had to be 18. I thought it was all banks 😳

Norway plus is enacting the referendum. The UK could have had one of those easiest in history/cup of tea deals literally years ago, but they didn’t want it respected like that. They want opposition MP’s to respect the referendum in the way the minority government tells them they ought to, which isn’t going to happen in any parliament.

I've been equally as scathing about govt fucking up the whole thing as I have about the Brexit blockers.

TM made numerous mistakes & mis-steps which brought us to this point

And all of that is before you go near... what about all the other manifesto promises. They aren’t so sacrosanct, are they?

The ref was direct democracy.
MPs such as Starmer et al promised to enact the instruction from the electorate (Leave)
It's sacrosanct that we leave the EU.
Losers consent - a fundamental component of democracy.

The ref was direct democracy advisory.

Feel betrayed? Take it up with that smug prick Cameron

An interesting study in fake news this Ken Clarke thing.

Was brought to this thread after being seen on the (self proclaimed) 'FACTS ARE ALL' Westminsters thread

And it's gone viral on other social media from both sides - leavers getting angry, remainers cheering it on

Only a tiny number of people correcting it & relaying the truth of what he said 😐

I don't think you are liable for income tax at 16, are you?
That's rather the point. No representation without taxation. Even if most 16 year olds would never earn enough to pay tax.
If a 16 year old is liable for full income tax (as an 18 year old is), they should be allowed the vote. Otherwise, no.
As I understand it, you need parental permission to marry at 16 or join the army.
The only anomaly is driving.

The ref was direct democracy advisory.

Will remainers ever stop refighting the past?

The existential question of our time.

I'd have to check properly Bellini, but I think income tax is not payable if you're a student, and you have to be in full time education or apprenticeship until 18 by law now

Parental permission to join the armed forces under 18, and you cannot be deployed on active duty under 18

The army has under 18s on an education & trg thing til 18 as far as I'm aware as well - they don't go straight into regular service as such like they used to (again, this is off the top of my head - I may well be wrong)