Brexit Arms

[time4chocolate]

Not much else to say really 🍷🍷🍷

The reality is that the ‘environmental impact’ of where produce is from goes further out of the window, the lower your income.

You simply can’t afford to pay a premium for more environmentally friendly products.

The "artisan" brand (for want of a better word) is hardly a nationwide money spinner. Telling people in poverty they can just pay extra for artisan swede from a local greengrocers that will magically appear via a time warp from 1973 isn't really a feasible plan.

“What has made people stay away this year?”

No idea, are we sure they have? Or is this ‘news’ perhaps not all it appears?

I mean, what could these ‘farmers’ corporations possibly gain from wanting to keep the status quo? 🤔

Walking I concur.

We, the UK are waiting for eu descion to see if we can then have election!

Yes let's get the duck out of doge. For bells sake.

“The reality is that the ‘environmental impact’ of where produce is from goes further out of the window, the lower your income.”

Maybe, but the very tangible human impact? not so much. The reality is, people should not have to be abused or exploited, to prevent us paying more for an apple. That’s the bare facts of it. Like it or not.

I mean, what could these ‘farmers’ corporations possibly gain from wanting to keep the status quo?

I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t have chosen to destroy their harvest this year to try and prove a point

The mental gymnastics to try and squirm out of these things really is astounding.

But, this is where the Govt steps in and also we need to 'refine' our tastes to suit the seasons (again).

In order to keep the farms viable, the govt need to buy their surplus crops. Using the agri-subsidies that would have been paid to the EU then repaid to the producers via the EU funding streams. The agri£subsidy would gain a bit more bang because it would be more 'direct payment' because various, very costly admin layers would have been removed.

Dear Goodness, it's late, and I've only given my fruiy ideas (plenty of fishy ones too) I'm out of the Corner, maybe see y'all tomorrow under the Glitterball.

“The mental gymnastics to try and squirm out of these things really is astounding.”

Really? Ive made some very fair points and provided evidence about the exploitation of migrant workers. So far, your points have been along the lines of not wanting to pay more for apples. If you think that’s mental gymnastics on my part then I really don’t know what else to say.

hate so your plan is to grow crops that cant be sold for their intended purpose, and pay farmers subsidies for the pleasure?

How long can that last?

Night @HateIsNotGood

epic I was referring to the fact you implied farmers were making these stories up in order to maintain the status quo

There is something very fishy about the unpicked apples reporting.

Apples for sale in the shops are about 30% cheaper this Autumn than they were last year and the year before. If they were not being picked and sold due to a worker shortage then there would be scarcity and they would be more expensive.

Whether Govt buys up excess produce or subsidises production, or non-production - as it currently does amounts to exactly the same cost.

Just popped in to report Ian Blackford is right on cue:

"People are not going to thank you for asking them to come out and vote in a general election when we're in the middle of winter."

The SNP's Westminster leader Ian Blackford says Boris Johnson's proposals for a December election are "barking mad."

It tipped with rain all Spring in W Scotland this year so I'm glad no-one expected me to "come out and vote" then. Not sure how he thinks I'm going to manage my Hallowe'en, fireworks and Christmas shopping.

Back to watching Quantum Physics on BBC4 - much more understandable than politicians.

Lexit source for the LibDem quote. The Tories in London are going with "vote LibDem get Labour".

Boris and JRM and Cabinet stating they will basically go on strike and not bring anything other than absolute requirements to Parliament until election is agreed.

AF Neil: "Are we now in a period where the current Parliament, unable to agree the present, wants instead to determine the future"? Yep

I can see, longer term, the argument for nudging consumers into all sorts of changes to suit national producers and manufacturers. But it all costs. And it all takes time.
Businesses can't just flick a switch and start producing in a different way supported by the right infrastructure and labour market to consumers who are ready to pay for it. It takes time. And probably government incentives if we are rejigging our economy.
To get from A to C, you have to go through B.

“epic I was referring to the fact you implied farmers were making these stories up in order to maintain the status quo”

Not saying they are, not saying they aren’t but as we leavers are repeatedly told, “follow the money”. That’s all I’m getting at.

@Epicwaffle , how about "follow the harvest ". It's that time of year.

I’m just trying to make to point that if we can’t sort something as simple as picking apples off a tree, where do the Brexit benefits come from?

Hate, agree wit your last post.

In our echo chamber of the bar 😂.

So so many posters on here, some of the most ardent so called socialists.... Have no idea of real life. The sort of people who think the police respond to and sort every problem you have. Who have no understanding of the nuances and issues in life most of us face, difficult unreasonable people etc.

They have had very comfortable rich backgrounds... So when I hear them berating wealthy Estonians....

On the fruit thing, I read somewhere earlier (can't remember where, sorry), that it was to do with the exchange rate - it's not worth it to them as they typically send much of the money home

If the pay was higher then there'd be staff basically

What's happened to fruit picking? Immigration still rollicking along so maybe they don't want to pick fruit anymore?

Oh yeah the plunging pound.

Maybe we should go to Poland and pick fruit then?

Cider orchards are already mechanically picked - vibrated off the tree in simple terms.

New Zealand is trialling mechanical eating apple picking - kind of like a hoover sucking apples off the tree - due to labour shortages. They have generous Visa enticements for fruit pickers already which are not providing enough. I don't see where the endless supply of cheap EU labour is coming from. All of the source countries have falling populations and increasing wages and living standards. Cheap labour is a poor argument for staying in the EU whether arguing from Left or Right - with this thinking no wonder there is a productivity gap.

I think the exploitation of non-UK workers is the very problem behind our agri-industry. There has to be recognition that UK working rights need to be adhered to in respect of 'seasonal harvesting'. Yes, temporarily staying in a bunkhouse working long days/nights should be acceptable, as well as being paid a good Living Wage for doing so.

Equally acceptable should be that where 'seasonal' gaps in the UK harvesting workforce is evident, then it should be easy to obtain non-UK seasonal workers, provided they each receive the NMW, with any Agency Fees paid additionally.

Copied the entire post because Yes. Very much this. 👍

(I'm catching up on the thread, sorry for posting out of sync )

...MN really needs a 'like' button...

I was looking for an article that I read some time back regarding fruit picking and technology but can't find it now, but did just come across this from UK Research & Innovation.
www.ukri.org/news/uk-plans-to-fund-new-technologies-to-transform-farming-and-tackle-climate-change/

Interestingly, The ‘other place’ appears to be in slightly troubled waters. The cracks and political divisions are showing. There seems to be a lot of infighting going on.

Could just be my uninitiated interpretation, but I was quite surprised, as I thought it was just the brexit arms that was the object of all hatred?

You have no idea what the backgrounds are of the people who post on here Sunny