Westminstenders: Another day of fear and toil

[RedToothBrush]

In a move that surprised no one paying attention, Bercow refused to let Johnson put the WA back to the house today after it had already been presented to the house on Saturday.

This move upset the government but was entirely predictable.

This means that the only way the deal can move forward is through the WA's implementation bill (the WAB). It was published for the first time tonight (all 100 pages of it) and it will be presented to the house tomorrow.

In a lightning fast timetable parliament will be asked to scruntise it. This of course is reckless in the extreme for such an important piece of legislation. The speed at which it is being forced through is the thing that looks most likely to ruffle feathers.

The government is still trying to pretend it can make the 31st October deadline and leave by then. The reality is there isn't enough time for parliament to pass the necessary legislation and the EU will need to also ratify the deal, which in a best case scenario won't happen until next week with an extraordinary EU meeting to do so. This is much more likely to occur the week after at the earliest.

The reality is the EU need an extension themselves which is why we are very likely to get at least a short technical one and remain in the EU beyond next Thursday. It's in the UK and EU's interest if we do want to get a deal done.

Everything that Johnson does though is about optics ahead of a GE. It has to play it all as if he has been prevented from leaving as he promised.

We wait to see the pieces of a deal fall into place. It is in progress now finally it seems. For better or worse.

squid4 - first of all, massive admiration for what you do, in difficult circumstances

You're right, everyone lives in their own wee bubble. I've admitted living in a Yes pro-Indy bubble (with the exception of my Pilates class which is mostly ladies who lunch a slightly unfair characterisation ).

I also live in a Remain bubble - I literally only know 2 people - who I only met over 2 years after the Referendum - who voted No. One has admitted he was conned (he was wanting more Commonwealth immigration as his girlfriend - my Commonwealth cousin - was in the middle of trying to get a working visa), the other is a friend of dh's who dh says just argues with him to wind him up.

But it's not a self-selecting bubble. I've seen people/vox poxes/newspapers claiming that "outside of the elite/the Remoaners, no one is talking about Brexit". Yet I've been to loads of functions where, unprompted, people have started talking to me, despairing about the Brexiters and the damage they are going to the economy. Just yesterday at the rugby club (which is not an "elite" one - it has a very wide demographic from asylum seekers to kids who're on EMA - almost all state schools - especially the older kids as the private schools play on the Saturday which means they can't play with us on Sunday) a lady I only vaguely knew launched into a diatribe about what was going on (and why it meant that Scotland needed its independence ).

And the ladies in my Pilates class now ask me what's going on when we go for coffee! They are all decidedly pro-European (and even their anti views on Scottish Independence are starting to soften although I tend to avoid the topic with them )

Excellent list of core values Dried. The last one resonates with me especially.

Thanks, red 💐

Westministenders' Abbreviations:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eureferendumm2016/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation?msgid=84503730

Each document for this bill is well over 100 pages
and cross-references to other bills mean MPs would need several days to analyse these:

European Withdrawal Bill:

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2019-2020/0007/en/20007en.pdf

Explanatory Notes

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2019-2020/0007/20007.pdf

and then there are the 500 pages of the WA itself ....

Really hard to compromise on investigating & criminalising opposition to the govt

Indeed...
I did say I could go on & on!
It doesn't do my insomnia any good though

@fedup21 my mum's oldest friend has a picture of bozo on her mantlepiece. 60 years of friendship would have been over for many of her comments over the decades but a framed picture of the biggest twat to grace Westminster? I'd be cutting contact. But then I've no time for toxic narcs and both she and bozo are one. My mum is lovely and toxic friend leaves her drained after just a phone call. Thankfully she lives far away now and mum can't meet up with her anymore unfortunately lots of people seem to be under the illusion that bozo can "get brexit done" and the sexism and misogyny is rife. TM was a mere woman ffs, what did she know? Boris is THE MAN. All hail the incredible sulk.

Borrowed cat has now finished cuddling up with us and has gone out

Going back to the last thread about an election - my fear is that Labour votes will defect to the BXP rather than splitting the Tory vote.

I really need to step away from FB, the absolute stupidity of what I am reading is making my head hurt, I am appalled by what is being allowed to stand on one MP's page, it is getting very close to inciting hatred in my opinion, and they are doing nothing to stem the tide.

I just want to cry I really do.

Oh and I am not sure a PV's would work, there is seriously some stupidity out there.

Please note I am very carefully referring to stupidity rather than calling people stupid, just to be, you know very very, clear.

But caps and all that.

(slaps wrist)

Cactus Polling suggests most Labour voters are Remain + Labour Leavers, in a crunch choice, will choose Labour rather than Brexit Party/Conservative.

So, don't worry too much about that.

Chin up. Lass.

Read Squid's posts on the last thread and take heart.

I missed most of the last thread! PMK with another Newsthump, with good points and well pointed. newsthump.com/2019/10/21/emotional-boris-johnson-pleads-with-mps-to-heal-the-national-divide-he-created/

Regarding investigating & criminalising opposition to the government - on a slightly different but related tack I noticed this item about political vetting for public-sector posts, and wondered who on Dom’s team is scrutinising SM threads on Brexit for blacklisting purposes.

I could add this one too newsthump.com/2019/10/21/bercow-wrong-to-dismiss-second-vote-on-boris-deal-insist-brexiters-who-regularly-dismiss-people-getting-second-vote-on-boris-deal/

You know, if you have a Labour MP, or a Conservative MP in a Remain area, it is worth emailing to ask them to vote for a PV.

It's worth an email. It really is.

I'm going to email the Conservstive MP in the neighbouring constituency. I know he's sympathetic (& scared of a GE). It's a long shot - but why not?

To cheer us up, latest Brexit news in #flags with collab blues 😂😂

https://mobile.twitter.com/Collabblues/status/1181123076563652609

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
Hear whole Tory One Nation grouping agreed tonight not to back customs union amendment

Separately, some MPs been in touch very cross they have so little time to get amendments ready for the Withdrawal Bill which is down to go thro at breakneck speed

Thanks for those DarkAtEndOfUk, always good to have an arf

Lewis Goodall@lewis_goodall
Interesting. .@BrineMP tells @maitlis what he’s read of the WAB so far (about a quarter) “makes me nervous”, as does the rushed process and he “reserves the right” not to vote for it tomorrow. #Newsnight

Paul Brand@paulbranditv
Withdrawal Agreement Bill appears to give ECJ jurisdiction in the UK during the transition period. Not sure how that’ll go down with the ERG.

CactusAndCacti it's very worrying when we know that 50% of the population are below average intelligence. I know IQ scores are debatable for a variety of reasons but we still use them as a measure. There are a lot of posters here with higher than average intelligence going off their grasp of what's happening and political knowledge in general. My IQ was said to be 126 (I think, it was years ago but I got a certificate from Mensa ) and I struggle to understand everything that's going on and that's with devoting far too many hours to reading these threads, the news, researching and discussing. What hope has the average or below average voter got of understanding something so complex and making an informed vote? It's bloody scary to think our countries future is decided by people who don't know what they are voting for. My dad went nuts at me when I was 18 and didn't vote because I didn't have enough information to make an informed choice. Back then it was the bbc and the daily mail newspaper as no internet. I didn't want the responsibility of making the wrong choice due to lack of information to critically analyse. He said I was irresponsible but I argued it was irresponsible to vote blindly. I think politics needs to be taught from an early age along with the history of our countries and union to help future generations. I've lost my train of thought now, sorry it's late and I'm too sleepy to think anymore. Basically politics needs to be personable and relevant to voters. Clearly communicated in as simple a way as possible. The barrier between the elected (or not) elite in parliament and the people voting for them and trusting them (or not) with their futures needs to be lessened. Less us and them. More everyone together to make everyone's future the best it can be for them. A PM and cabinet who give a shit about the people behind the votes.

I'm waffling. Sleep time!

That's cats for you Bercows; fickle fuckers.

I am watching a show on BBC1 Ulster and Jim Wells has just said the following-

Jim Wells: we are going to use every tactic we can to stop Boris Johnson's deal
Stephen Nolan: even a second referendum?
JW: everything's on the table Stephen, everything
SN: you might join up with Labour?
JW: every legitimate constitutional tactic will be used this week to bring this deal down. Full stop, thats it.

Jim Wells for those who don't know, is a DUP politician

There are a bunch of screen shots with this thread but I'm just going to post the text as you should get the idea anyway

Alex Sobel MP @alexsobel
This evening I am reading the entirety of the Withdrawal Agreement Bill which the Govt want to get through Committee Stage by Thursday evening. I would say normally that would take 8 days. I will give a read out of areas which are problematic irrespective of your view of Brexit

First up Northern Ireland - It implements the protocol which means that a yet uninvented frictionless border model will exist without a customs union and an Assembly and Executive who haven’t met for a 1000 days will give Democratic Consent!

We were told there were guarantees on workers rights. Called non-regression meaning you can’t roll them back. The bill merely says ‘statements of non-regression’ we get statements to Parliament all the time its not a guarantee. This needs urgent amendment

It further goes onto say when they bring future bills that affect worker’s rights if they do want to lower our rights then all they need to do is make a statement and ram the bill through anyway!

Here’s a long long list of workers rights the EU have conferred upon us as listed in the bill. Lots for a Tory Government to go at!

Here’s 2 more pages of workers rights just for good measure

There’s no similar section for Environmental Rights. So even if you don’t care about Climate Change (spoiler: I do) the mandatory limits on Clean Air are out we have to trust a future unpublished Environment Bill which can’t be implemented by the end of 2020 to protect Clean Air

I’m off now as I have download a tonne of other documents to cross-reference the Bill with so I understand it fully! Just a reminder we vote on this tomorrow and I haven’t even analysed effects on crossborder trade, data adequacy, movement of workers like musicians or actors etc

Lewis Goodall@lewis_goodall
One of today’s big stories has been the revelation that NI firms will have to fill out paperwork to export goods to GB.

It’s logical to assume there could be other details intrinsic to deal/WAB which are not yet obvious/clear.

And yet there is almost no time to examine them.

This has probably been said already -

But on Newsnight, very interesting man at the end, said that the New WA has been written with flaws on purpose in order to fail so that Boris can call an election and blame everyone for rejecting it.