Brexit Arms pop up pops up again!

[time4chocolate]

Quite coincidentally I too have been in negotiations today regarding the pubs licence and it's good news here as well, a deal has been agreed!!

There were no amendments or legal objections put forward so a shiny new licence has been issued and normal service can be resumed

Same rules apply.

Now let's hope Saturday's proceedings can go ahead without the usual dicking around and that what has been nigh on impossible during the last 3 years, a majority, can be achieved otherwise I feel we are off to hell in a handcart!

First drink is on the house 🍻🍷🍻🍷Cheers

Of course I haven’t read it I have a full time job (employee), family etc and no vote because I am not an mp. Re workers rights I would say it is for future governments (hence the electorate indirectly) to decide so taking that part out of the legally binding part of the bill reduces certainty but still leaves it ultimately in your hands.

If worker’s rights are removed, the next step will be American style employment contracts - surely no one wants that?

Re workers rights I would say it is for future governments (hence the electorate indirectly) to decide so taking that part out of the legally binding part of the bill reduces certainty but still leaves it ultimately in your hands.

👍

Exactly!

If worker’s rights are removed, the next step will be American style employment contracts - surely no one wants that?

Employers (and investors in firms) do!

I would say it is for future governments (hence the electorate indirectly)*

Very, very indirectly.

Because MPs always vote the way their constituents want them to, don't they?

Hmmm - no, they don't.

I don’t understand it either, your argument doesn’t make sense.

Say we had a referendum on a decision to raise basic rate of income tax to 40% in return for a universal basic income of £500 a month each.

People do the figures and just over half of people work out that they will be marginally better off with higher tax and universal income, and vote yes.

Then once this vote has taken place, the government say that actually, we can’t afford this, so you now have two choices: we can either increase income tax to 50% and you each get £500 in universal basic income or we will increase tax to 40% and you each get £200 a month in basic income.

People do their calculations and work out that no matter which option they pick they will be worse off than if they had voted not to raise income tax in the first place. They ask for a second referendum on the tax increase to be told no, we’ve already decided to raise income tax so it would be undemocratic to ask that question again

How is that fair?

This is analogous to what we are currently being offered as neither this WA or no deal Brexit was what was presented by vote leave.

I would be wanting any MP to reject the clauses limiting workers protection. It looks like this area will have amendments attached to it.

*Because MPs always vote the way their constituents want them to, don't they?
**
*Hmmm - no, they don't.

True.

If they did we'd not be having the current Brexit-blocking shitshow

That’s not analogous at all limited because leave was always about intangibles and the decision is based on far more than hard numbers. And the projections about being better or worse off are based on many assumptions and usually lack the impact of a stimulus package so will probably be wildly inaccurate - just look at how much the Bank of England’s worst case scenario improved once Hammond left and Javid arrived as if by magic. This was a far more complex and unquantifiable question than the one you have outlined and the intangibles, although perhaps better defined, are still very poorly defined.

The analogy wasn’t about the cost/negatives of brexit. It was this:

Gov: You can either have option 1 or option 2.
Public: We will have option 2 please.
Gov: Option 2 isn’t an option anymore so you can have either option 3 or option 4.
Public: We don’t like either of those options, can we have option 1 please?
Gov: No, you have already decided against option 1 so it would be undemocratic to give you the chance of that option again. It must be option 3 or option 4.

Your example was about hard numbers, leave is about much more than hard numbers, hence not analogous.

And the second, simplified analogy?

What option 2 is no longer available? Cameron said we’d leave cu and am, it’s still available, but with greater optionality in the range of outcomes.

Sm not am sorry

We were told we would get a great deal. We were told no risk to workers rights. We were told no risk of no deal. This was false. As soon as option 2 differentiates even slightly to what was promised before the referendum your argument that it would be undemocratic to include option 1 as part of a second vote falls over.

Yes there is some blurring of the lines if you include everything that was ever said by anyone who was campaigning to leave and I’m not sure vague words like ‘a great deal’ should mean anything to anyone as loose manifesto promises but it’s still possible if workers’ rights and other standards were maintained after 2020 to have something that could be interpreted by some as ‘a great deal’. But I don’t want to split hairs because my greatest fear is that populism will rise and that will happen whether it actually is undemocratic or whether it is just perceived to be and I think the latter is certainly true and the former probably too.

Fucks sake. Same old round the houses bullshit in parliament I see. It’s like some horrible everlasting form of groundhog day. Get the fucking job done you overpaid overhyped bloody cretins.

Ahhh, That felt good...

I’m minded to get down there with my own fucking megaphone. So sick of these twerps.

It's just the same old shit over & over - there's very few original or insightful questions.

If the business bill gets voted down tonight then it's over to the EU for indication of extension length.

If it's a short offer, then he'll push on to deliver; if it's long (eg end of Jan) then he's pulling the bill & going for GE

I'd prefer short extension, pass the bill, GE - but would be equally ok with pull the bill & immediate GE

The sooner we clear out this lot in Parliament the better

👋👋Epicwaffle [nee mustard].

I’m at work at the moment so I have no idea whats ‘going down’ in Westminster.

Reading between the lines of Epics post it seems like more of the same.

If anything of any substance happens, she says hopefully, then do feel free to pop it on here.

No hope there Time4, my namesake, wafflechops is on his feet. It could be a while before we get past the usual 3hr Scottish independence bollocks from him.

They are spending so much damn time, complaining that they haven’t got enough time. There are no strong enough words for this omnishamble.

Fuck the herbal tea. I need a tequila.

Ian Blackford is a puffed up fool...!!
😂😂

Labour - 262 seats, 40% vote share in 2017

Elected on lies, now actively seeking to block Brexit & re-run the ref

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jHwPsdOZUMk]

I don't think anyone is dependable or trust worthy in Parliament at the moment but wow! People still purport to push Labour as being trustworthy!!...