Brexit Arms pop up pops up again!

[time4chocolate]

Quite coincidentally I too have been in negotiations today regarding the pubs licence and it's good news here as well, a deal has been agreed!!

There were no amendments or legal objections put forward so a shiny new licence has been issued and normal service can be resumed

Same rules apply.

Now let's hope Saturday's proceedings can go ahead without the usual dicking around and that what has been nigh on impossible during the last 3 years, a majority, can be achieved otherwise I feel we are off to hell in a handcart!

First drink is on the house 🍻🍷🍻🍷Cheers

HateIsNotGood

I’m with you.

I’m out until there’s some good news to drink to, like the day we actually leave! All this backwards & forwards crap is nonsense.

Hopefully see you all on the 31st ( of which month or year who knows? 😂 )

We're at the endgame now - it'll all go through, or all go to shit!

We're entirely at the mercy of a handful of 'undecided' MPs & the Lords...

See you both on the other side Hate & Dirty xxx

Keep those tea lights burning!

And #PrayForSally 🙏🕯

(I'll still be kicking around coz I've literally nothing else to do at the moment 😂)

frumpety there is plenty of unrest on these boards, on question time etc. What prompts people to march or demonstrate outside parliament if not unrest? Are you suggesting people are not feeling unrest at the moment?

I'm not going to waste any more braincells on HoC working out what they're doing

Awesome idea

I dont think they know either...i was really on the ball with this, friends would ask me what was happening, I’d give them a concise and well thought out answer...

Now?

I got nothing

Strongly disagree that mps are driven only to do their job properly. They are driven to delay by any means possible to improve their chances to achieve power. Shabby bunch with a few honourable exceptions. Most of that agreement is not new so they only need focus on the changes. I have often (not recently) worked ridiculous hours to get something done by a deadline, why can’t they? The issue is that Bercow was right to allow saturday’s amendment but he is inconsistent in his approach to precedent which casts doubt on his impartiality.

From Brendan O'Neil's article in today's online Spectator - about calls for a 2nd referendum.

"...And so some doublespeak phrases have been invented to disguise the deeply undemocratic and patronising nature of a second referendum. Some campaigners call it a ‘confirmatory vote’. Others call it a ‘People’s Vote’.

...The army of Remainers who marched in London on Saturday did so under the banner of a ‘People’s Vote’. They overlook that we had a people’s vote already, in June 2016, and that it was the largest people’s vote in the history of this country. It’s a bit of a bloody cheek to march for a ‘people’s vote’ when really your aim is to overthrow a people’s vote..."

Not quite. More people voted in the 1992 general election. It also had a higher turnout rate, as did other elections in the 20th century

I read this the other day...

It was still a bloody huge vote, but i was interested to see that it wasnt the biggest one

Will be interesting to see how turnout is affected in future GEs

If nothing else, I think that Brexit, the cult of Corbyn & the 'rogue Parliament' have helped to increase awareness of politics in the general population & how important & precious our vote is

Hopefully greater engagement in politics will be a lasting legacy of the 2010s!

Good plan Hate I've given up watching the news in favour of box sets and sport for the same reason.

Might pop back if they decide to have a GE or actually pass the WA.

Sorry Megan , I thought you were referring to mass civil unrest as in rioting and the such. I agree that the debate remains lively, but I wouldn't necessarily class it as 'unrest'.

(Don’t want to derail the current conversation so please just read this in isolation so that you know who I am as I don’t want to look like I am socking!)

I am previously Notthebloodymustardcushion currently on one of my regular security namechanges (chose this new one in honour of Ian Blackford )

I just wanted to clear up any confusion around my post much earlier in the thread.

I posted about my “changing position” and “leaning towards remain/2nd ref” due to my worry about the potential loss of Scotland and NI from the union. Some presumed this meant I was now a remainer. That is NOT the case, at that point, I was ‘leaning’ towards a new position, certainly not ‘arrived’ at one. It was based only on my concern around that singular issue and in no other way have I renounced brexit. On greater personal reflection, I have accepted and realised that Scotland under the SNP are pretty much determined to walk anyway, and if NI do the same, then ultimately they probably would have done so too in the longer term. So, On that basis, I am squarely back to where I was before with no further doubts or ‘leanings’

So, to be clear. I want brexit. I do not want another referendum, I panicked unduly, based on something that ultimately will probably happen anyway and will merely be pre-empted by brexit, not caused by it. I think the stress of all of this indecision in politics finally got to me and I had a mini intellectual meltdown (roll on loads of snarky comments about my leavers intellect )

Anyway. I just wanted to say hello again and order a herbal tea and a packet of crisps (too early for wine... ).

I’ll save my thoughts on the un-supervised school assembly that is our current parliament for other posts.

@MeganBacon "unrest" means civil disorder. It doesn't mean disquiet and peaceful protest. Watch your words , please.

A state of dissatisfaction, disturbance and agitation typically involving public demonstrations or disorder
Use of the word ‘or’ makes me think I did not misuse the word.

disn’t mean that to sound grumpy - am always happy to have my English corrected bellini

If having a further referendum is so undemocratic, why did JRM say we should have a second vote after exit terms had been negotiated before the 2016 referendum?

That comment doesn’t tell us anything about whether it is democratic or not.

The electorate were told multiple times that it was a once in a lifetime vote and the government would implement the result. This only leaves open the possibility of a second referendum choosing between no deal or wa.

If you are so certain that Brexit in its current form is still the will of the people, what’s the problem with a confirmatory referendum now we all know what Brexit actually looks like? What actually is undemocratic is trying to rush the bill through without full parliamentary scrutiny.

If having a further referendum is so undemocratic, why did JRM say we should have a second vote after exit terms had been negotiated before the 2016 referendum?

I understand he suggested this might be a possibility during a debate in 2011.
Having two referendums would be democratic if it was agreed before the first one so voters were fully aware they'd be voting again.
But it wasn't agreed and voters were told the outcome of the first/only referendum would be respected.

The issue with that though is the Brexit we have been presented with isn’t anything like what was promised during the vote leave campaign. We were promised a guarantee on working rights. We were told no chance of no deal. Now it’s clear that the vote leave campaign presentation of what Brexit is isn’t actually attainable, surely a second vote is only fair so people can vote on the Brexit that is being offered, or remain?

I didn’t say I had my finger on the pulse of will of the people but my sense would be that if polling were consistently in favour of remain beyond the margin of error, then yes a second vote could be good, but that is absolutely not the case. So the only reasonable question would be no deal or wa and even that I would rather leave up to government. Basically I think we are way beyond the point of no return and to keep fighting it at this point just colours the future populist.

I voted Leave.

And I bloody well wish I hadn't, as I now realise that it was a very poor decision on my part.

I could kick myself for being so naïve and for failing to understand the reality of leaving the EU.

Country - I apologise.

I would love there to be a second referendum so that I could have a chance to vote after educating myself thoroughly.

If you are so certain that Brexit in its current form is still the will of the people, what’s the problem with a confirmatory referendum now we all know what Brexit actually looks like?

I don't have a problem with another referendum as long as Remain isn't an option.
If this deal goes through we could choose between that and leaving with No Deal.

You say you are happy to leave it to the government - so you are happy with the terms of the WAIB? Have you read it? Especially what it says in respect of workers rights? If so I can only imagine that you are a business owner and welcome dilution of workers rights to increase your profits. If they didn’t intend to dilute them, they could have left them in the legally binding part of the Bill, as if the intention was to improve current standards being legally binding would have had no affect on their ability to do this.

Now is the time. The time is now.

I shall sit down and read the paper which for me is the puzzle pages. No television. No radio.

All to a background of music.

Everything else can fuck diddly diddly off.

I don't have a problem with another referendum as long as Remain isn't an option. If this deal goes through we could choose between that and leaving with No Deal.

I don't understand this position - 'No Deal' is not an option, it's a failure to select an option. I'd be more in agreement with the 'no remain' confirmatory vote if we had two deals to choose from - for that you'd need to let Labour negotiate their deal, though.