Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: DUP says no

974 replies

TheMShip · 17/10/2019 13:15

I don't really feel qualified to start a Westminstenders thread but we need a new one....

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
BigChocFrenzy · 18/10/2019 17:55

May's WA committed the UK to follow specific regulations to maintain standards & level playing field,
whereas BJ's WA just has fine words that require nothing specifc

Faisal Islam@faisalislam

On the changes to Level Playing Field commitments

  • in original May deal legally-binding & required adherence to specific international or EU standards, in 30pg Annex 4, part of backstop

Now deleted from WA. Short refs in PD

  • Tax
  • Environment
  • Labour
  • State Aid
  • Competition

Tax:
Old Withdrawal Agreement..

  • adherence to OECD standards Base Erosion & Profit Shifting standards
  • adoption of 3 EU tax avoidance directives
  • commitment to G20-OECD profit shifting plan

Now - PD - “commit to the principles of good governance/curbing harmful tax practices”

Environment
In old WA

  • non regression on EU enviro standards, Info access, air quality targets, climate change etc...
  • respect precautionary principle/ UK carbon pricing
  • Independent monitor

PD: should “maintain enviro standards” at current high levels incl implementing Paris

Labour/ Social:
In old WA:

  • non regression on EU Labour standards re: fundamental rights/ health and safety/ conditions/ consultation
  • implement already ratified ILO & CoE social charter standards

In PD

  • “should maintain social & employment standards at current high levels”

State Aid:
In old WA:

  • Application of 5 Articles of EU treaty, enforced by independent UK body
  • information exchange... UK courts to decide

In PD: “Parties should uphold the common high standards applicable in the Union and UK ...in the areas of state aid”

Competition:
In old WA

  • prohibitions on fixing prices, production controls etc in ref to EU law. UK “should adopt or maintain competition law” addressing these issues
  • neutral OECD guidelines on state owned enterpises

In PD: “maintain a robust and comprehensive framework”

These pages below from Governments initial account of the legal advice on last year’s WA, shows detail of international standards the agreement would compel the UK to adhere to, after a Brexit, as part of backstop...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/761153/EUUExit--LegalpositionnontheeWithdrawal_Agreement.pdf

Backstop wasn’t just about N. Ireland,
it effectively provided a limit on the immediate regulatory distance between UK & EU if there was no negotiated trade deal.

It was a detailed legally defined floor.

That has now gone, indeed that was much of the point of renegotiating deal
To be clear, something like these commitments are still an option, & required for tariff free trade deal (negotiated with a veto from every EU27 state)...
if that free trade negotiation fails, & no extensions, there is now a path to WTO terms next year, rather than this floor...

Basilpots · 18/10/2019 17:56

If this deal is so good, then a few weeks delay to inspect it properly won't do any harm, will it ?

This ^^.

There is a very good reason Javid is keen not to have to ‘crunch the numbers’ on this deal and wants to rush it through blaming Brexit fatigue. It’s almost as crap for the economy as WTO according to that link provided earlier by BCF from an independent source.

They REALLY REALLY don’t want this scrutinised in any depth at all. Lord knows what other horrors are buried in that text.

MarshaBradyo · 18/10/2019 17:57

What’s the march for? For them not to pass it?

Basilpots · 18/10/2019 17:58

Is reporting that a Labour group of MPs have been assured of concessions on worker rights.

He should be prepared to put that in the WA and make it legally binding then.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/10/2019 17:58

So as Faisal notes above, the many commitments BJ's WA drops compared to May's includes:

3 EU tax avoidance directives

< colour me surprised >

thecatfromjapan · 18/10/2019 17:58

Yes, Peregrina.

Butterymuffin · 18/10/2019 17:58

If Labour MPs believe a word Johnson says they're idiots. He has no reason to keep his word. And generally doesn't.

Hoooo · 18/10/2019 17:58

Yes please LQ!

dreichsky · 18/10/2019 18:00

Any body, MP or otherwise who believes a word Johnson says is an idiot.
How many jobs has he lost through lying?

ArseDarkly · 18/10/2019 18:01

a Labour group of MPs have been assured of concessions on worker rights

Assured by a proven liar currently under investigation for a possible charge of misconduct in public office. Just how stupid/desperate would you have to be to believe those assurances?

Basilpots · 18/10/2019 18:01

3 EU tax avoidance directives

Well well well.

prettybird · 18/10/2019 18:03

Any Labour MP who is conned taken one by reassurances about workers' rights deserve to burn in hell need their heads examined Angry

Are they really that gullible? ConfusedAngry no need to answer that Sad

dontcallmelen · 18/10/2019 18:03

If labour believe that nonsense, then we really are fucked.

DGRossetti · 18/10/2019 18:04

If Labour MPs believe a word Johnson says they're idiots

Or Brexiteers.

thecatfromjapan · 18/10/2019 18:05

It's not all of Labour, dontcallmeellen. It's just the ones who want some sort of excuse to vote for Johnson.

And, yes, despicable is the word.

Basilpots · 18/10/2019 18:06

Or Brexiteers.

Or both.

ListeningQuietly · 18/10/2019 18:07

so @hooo and @colouringinpro are also on the toothbrush stack ..... I have one more beyond that you have to share Grin

dontcallmelen · 18/10/2019 18:07

You’re right Cat I’m so throughly & utterly depressed today I’m lumping them altogether which is unfair.

thecatfromjapan · 18/10/2019 18:08

I really think I can't canvas and give my time to Labour any more.

I'm furious these MPs haven't been read the riot act.

There is no excuse.

This Deal is completely for the Right and not for them many'.

It's utterly unacceptable Corbyn hasn't made it absolutely clear they'll have the whip withdrawn if they vote for this.

I've actually had enough.

thecatfromjapan · 18/10/2019 18:09

My MP is great, Sadiq is brilliant.

But enough.

Basilpots · 18/10/2019 18:09

Melanie Onn.

Now voting with the Government.

dreichsky · 18/10/2019 18:10

Okay, I'd like a toothbrush.

I fund bus seats as I'm not in the UK so can't go myself.

prettybird · 18/10/2019 18:11

Now - PD - “commit to the principles of good governance/curbing harmful tax practices”

....and there's the rub Hmm

Good governance just means "doing it well". More relevantly, who defines what "harmful tax practices" are? Hmm To the oligarchs and certain large corporations and the Smugs and Farages of this world "harmful tax practices" = any tax and/or anti-tax avoidance directives Hmm

Leave it to BJ and the Brexiters (sounds like the most godawful boy band) and he'll be able to claim that the PD has allowed him to "simplify" (aka reduce) taxation on his funders the richest. Angry

ListeningQuietly · 18/10/2019 18:12

@dreichsky Its yours - for Brits not in the UK its deeply frustrating I know
and yes, I really will have five red toothbrushes on my lapel tomorrow

dreichsky · 18/10/2019 18:12

This is such a bad deal for working people that I am really surprised that any Labour MP would back it.
Who the hell looks at the ERG's voting records and thinks, oh yes in the support of the working person I'll vote for the same thing as them!