Westminstenders: DUP says no

[TheMShip]

I don't really feel qualified to start a Westminstenders thread but we need a new one....

Michael Rosen
@MichaelRosenYes
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2m
One of the reasons why the EU representatives and officers looked so pleased yesterday is because no one will be able to blame the EU if the deal is voted down. That would be the 'UK's fault'.

There are plenty of UK residents forced into zero-hour contracts.

The idea that it's EU workers taking the low-paid jobs and pushing down wages is nuts.

Two minutes reading up on people's stories of experiencing disability assessment would tell you that the coercive pressure to force people to work - which is itself a deflationary pressure to decrease wages - is not coming from EU workers.

It's come from reduced union power and pressure around benefits.

That can be laid at the feet of right-wing UK governments - and austerity in particular.

thecatfromjapan Who was to blame for reduced union pressure and opening up the Labour market to the EU, ( yes Labour )

Why is it easier to blame FOM than the idiots who voted - and kept voting for - austerity?

People are so ridiculous.

I always think of that daft mare who went on television and cried because she'd gleefully voted for benefit cuts for other people and was really upset when her benefits were cut.

It's the Brexit mind-set.

I do believe that Thatcher brought in the anti-union legislation.

And you are still going with 'FOM is anti-union'.

No. No it's not.

'Austerity' - the ideological choice of the Conservatives and the main driver of Brexit - caused pretty much every 'symptom' that immigrants were blamed for.

Insane.

Ok, possible stupid question here: if NI is leaving the customs union, there will have to be customs checks, right? How is this not perceived as a type of border?
Sorry if it's obvious!

fluffy If the WA is passed, then I expect Corbyn, SNP, maybe others to allow / push a GE

I'm not saying it's what I want - I don't - but it's what I expect

David Allen Green@davidallengreen
Two home truths

Remainers, yes, you were wrong-footed by Johnson unexpectedly capitulating so to get a deal to head off Benn Act

And EU27 are not your absolute allies: they are looking after their interests as they should do - EU27 will not frustrate Johnson just to help Remain

A further home truth

Brexiters, surprise manoeuvres can give the illusion of victory - but the cost of heading off the Benn Act is the same May deal which is Brexit In Name Only until at least end of 2020, with UK as much a "vassal" state as when you voted the deal down

Mujtaba Rahman @mij_europe
Important to note: momentum between now & Saturday's vote will be towards @BorisJohnson - not away from him. The "get Brexit done" factor works to Boris' advantage over the next 24hrs. So vote will be close - probs single digits either way - but w/out @duponline difficult to see

Key though it seems

Tom Newton Dunn@tnewtondunn
The Letwin amendment. A serious problem for the Govt, as would allow wavering Labour and Tory MPs to kick the can down the road rather than decide tomorrow.

Lewis Goodall@lewis_goodall
Two NEC members (incl. @jonlansman) saying any Lab MP who votes for the deal must be replaced.

Brutal stuff. But for Labour consequences if deal goes through are surely:

-big BJ bounce
-spring election
-Lib Dem/ remainer retribution.

That’s why some are raising the stakes.

But as @RaynerSkyNews points out, not clear that stake raising is being matched by Jeremy Corbyn...

NI
"there will have to be customs checks"

notstrong Checks will be in the Irish Sea - that's basically an NI / GB border

This deal doesn't have a backstop - which is basically an insurance policy which might never be used:
BJ has pushed NI closer to Ireland / the EU.
Permanently

The nationalists have in practice a veto to prevent NI from changing this Irish Sea border - it would continue until Ireland is reunited

The Conservative & Unionist party have dramatically accelerated a United Ireland

Sammy Wilson MP @eastantrimmp
Conservative & Unionist MPs must take a stand for the Union and join us in rejecting this deal. Internal & burdensome trade barriers will be erected within the UK without parallel consent from both unionists & nationalists. This is not Brexit.

Sam Coates Sky@samcoatessky
DUP campaigning hard for Tory brexiteers to oppose

thecatfromjapan Yet Labour was in power for over 10 years and done nothing about it,
You can have your own view, I’m just telling you I would have been surprised if leave hadn’t won and the main reason for it in my area, Austerity didn’t stop the EU citizens from taking the factory jobs.

Amazing how the greatest anti-Tory minds - in Parliament, in the courts, in the commentariat - fell for one of the oldest magic tricks in the book: misdirection. Everyone expected Boris to be committed to pressing for the hardest possible exit, so all the snares were laid in that direction. Then, at the last moment, he becomes as liquid as an eel, slips out of the net, concludes a deal with the EU in an affable and conciliatory manner, and leaves the opposition looking like idiots.

It would be good if you told us where you were from Hester54. Most areas with heavy Leave votes didn't have much immigration, whereas strong Remain areas did.

I know that the area around Boston which was Leave did have a lot of E European immigration, but why not blame successive Governments, who could have chosen to put a stay on immigration, but didn't bother, or could have made provision via better public facilities to cope with an expanded population but again didn't bother?

The NHS is now being propped up with EU staff. Guess where they came from before? Commonwealth countries in Southern Africa and South East Asia who sorely needed the medical staff in their own countries. Guess who will prop up the NHS afterwards?

Locally we are losing EU scientists - someone with 5 GCSEs to their name is not going to replace someone with a PhD and a number of years Postdoc work, however much they whinge. Ten years study might see them able to replace the ones leaving.

Until you give us concrete examples, I am inclined to take your statements with a pinch of salt.

Hester54
You can look forward to UK pay being downgraded to Bangladeshi or Vietnamese rates as manufacturers move more production overseas. It is the way the world has always worked and in itself bugger all to do with the EU. More Enlightened employers such as Titus Salt and the early Cadbury family went against the grain by providing better conditions (although cynically you could say it helped their profits but in a more subtle way).
Look at 'Trending' and it seems the list of reasons for complaining just goes on and on. Not for nothing the Australians refer to the Brits as 'whinging Poms'.

Damn, this paint is interesting.

I doubt EU workers took all the factory jobs.

And you are suggesting that EU workers took low-paid jobs.

Austerity pushed those wages down (see my post re coerced labour) & lack of union representation kept them low.

Blaming EU workers for this is exactly the same as blaming EU workers for long waits on the NHS or to see a GP.

And it's been busted.

BJ has pushed NI closer to Ireland / the EU. Permanently....

The Conservative & Unionist party have dramatically accelerated a United Ireland

Yup. And there will be consequences from the Loyalist paramilitaries.

You can look forward to UK pay being downgraded to Bangladeshi or Vietnamese rates as manufacturers move more production overseas.

Depends on skill set. But yes.

If you are skilled and there is a shortage it goes the other way due to struggling to attract the best people from abroad.

This WA is NOT May's WA warmed up: it is much worse

Dumping NI is a clear indication that BJ will go full speed for a US FTA:
the US trade negotiators would have told UK negotiators that Congress won't approve any FTA with a border inside Ireland

I'm not even worried about the Benn loophole and going for No Deal if this WA is passed, because it already gives the ERG everything they want
it lets them have their Bonfire of Workers' rights - in GB only - no need for No Deal.

The pages of requirements for level playing field are no longer in the legally binding the WA, only in the non-binding PD
They would be irrelevant if the UK goes for a minimum future trade relationship with the EU - which would probably little more than zero tariffs

A note about NHS eu staff...
My own observations over the past 3 years is that the well trained, english speaking eu staff have left, to be replaced by indian and Filipino staff (at least here in the E Mids...)
I do - occasionslly - smile at the thought of frothy leavers not realising that we NEED experts like drs and if they don't come from the eu they will come from Asia, the commonwealth or from the far east.
Brown people!!!!
😊

thecatfromjapan Yes they did, just because it hasn’t happened in your industry, doesn’t mean it’s not true, you can blame austerity if you wish, but the country twice voted for the sitting party

And there will be consequences from the Loyalist paramilitaries.

BoZo, rich Brexiteers, and the only People who count since 2016 Leavers don't give a shiny shit about that.

but the big difference is that the LPF provisions are now in the non-binding political declaration rather than in the legally-binding withdrawal agreement.

Herein lies the nub.The (ERG driven) Johnson tweaks to May's deal make a gradual erosion workers’ and consumers’ easier.

‘The people’ may have embraced Brexit out of nationalism and mistaken austerity driven feelz about making Britain great again.

‘ The bosses’ did not peddle Brexit for the same reasons. It was because they deeply resented the minimal workers’ and consumers’ rights forming the level playing field.These rights effectively cap profits that can be made.

Without them the true elite can make more money with the US big boys.

Through three years of trying to understand the Leave point of view the only argument that has some gravitas is that the EU basic standards benefitted individuals over profit.

I abhor steps to building that kind of society. But make no mistake it is why the ERG successfully agitated for the ref. and refused previous deals . With this deal they are yet another step closer to their goal.

There will be deaths in NI and Scotland will separate.

I've reached the point of if you can't beat them join them. I'll still march against this shit - whilst pondering ideas for exploitative business practices marketing unlabelled low quality products for my own personal gain.
If that's the society we want I'm going to try and set my DC up to avoid being the exploited.

No, Cendrillon.

Johnson took a deal that had been left on the floor - covered in piss, rejected by May and himself as injurious to the UK - added a paragraph or two that told the ERG he'd set light to H&S regulations and workers' rights, and walked back to the HoC.

'Here,' he said, 'I Neville Chamberlain Boris Johnson, have secured peace in our time a great deal. Vote for it, you morons. I despise you - prove yourselves worthy of my contempt.'