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Brexit

Westminstenders: Showdown

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/10/2019 20:22

Big week ahead.

Johnson has until Tuesday Afternoon to get his shit together for the EU.

He thinks it can be down, but still lots to do in that time.

This week we have the Queen's Speech too, which is going to be misused as a party political broadcast.

Remember if the government can't pass the QS, there's a crisis that gets generated as a direct result. Sticking in proposals that any liberal or leftie will struggle with, is deliberately provoking a crisis of that nature. A proposal of that type would have to be anti democratic in nature, like... Ermmm... Voter ID. Hell, well what do you know.

Johnson is still after his election because as it stands he's a passenger stuck in the runaway train of his own creation.

Talk of a deal breakthrough is still overstated too. The DUP and many of the usual ERG suspects have poured water on the idea. And many on the opposition benches are pushing hard on a confirmary ref being needed for a deal - they don't have the numbers yet, but talk is that they are close. We also have loyalist military making threats about an Irish Sea Border solution.

Time for Project Shit Meets Fan.

OP posts:
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cherin · 15/10/2019 18:57

Mah, I’m a bit confused/ignorant on this, which are the U.K. workers right directives that are stemming from the EU? Max number of hours/week?
In my experience of two countries (plus a glimpse of what I can see from the office we opened in a Nordic country) the differences are enormous! Here in the U.K. maternity rights are a bit pityful if I’m allowed to say (sorry!) in comparison to where I come from. (Nonetheless, I still had a child in each country and overall didn’t mind the U.K. system, but I was much more senior and older and could afford to be paid a pittance and beg for a nursery place at astronomical rates...)
People have 1 month notice in my company, standard practice. I’m in a management role and I have 3 months, hardly the definition of permanent position, for other european counterparts....
So, what are the Eu rules that are supposed to help us?

TheMShip · 15/10/2019 18:57

Word is only an outline would be ready for Saturday.

JeSuisPoulet · 15/10/2019 18:58

Was just talking to a friend and mentioned the Maidstone and T.Wells (?) hospitals booking out the rooms of the local Travel Lodge for cancer patients. She confirmed that the Kent and Canterbury have done the same for their consultants to ensure they have somewhere to sleep if we ND. The costs incurred to prepare around the country must be huge Sad

lonelyplanetmum · 15/10/2019 19:00

Am hearing from various sources that #Johnson is -conceding dynamic alignment with EU customs regs &singlemarket rules for #NorthernIreland -opposing EU-UK level playing field on workers rights/env standards/health&safety

It's funny isn't it.

Leavers deny that EU law only has a limited remit. They make out it governs. everything. Which.it.Does.Not.

We all know the truth. The EU treaties only agreed on limited spheres that protect individuals in a trading context. Some workers rights, environment, food and product safety. That's it.

Yet when it actually comes to the wire the truth is revealed. The controlling fringe Tories show their true colours the only interference was on limited individual rights and it's those protections they always resented.

What gets me is the 17 million facilitated this -seeing it as some kind of revolution.

thecatfromjapan · 15/10/2019 19:02

Cherin it's workers' rights compared to the US we have to look at. Rights here may not be great compared to Nordic countries but are a head and shoulders above US workers' rights.

I doubt very much our right-wing governments in the UK want to unhitch from EU parity in order to provide greater worker entitlement.

thecatfromjapan · 15/10/2019 19:04

Ye, Lonely.

I'm furious, all over again, with the people who voted for this.

RedToothBrush · 15/10/2019 19:11

David Allen Green@davidallengreen
Today, on Brexit Twitter

Deal
DEAL
No Deal
No Deal!
Deal?
Deal
No Deal?
No Deal
Deal?
DEAL!
SUCK IT UP REMOANERS
No Deal?
No Deal
Extension?
EXTENSION!
No Extension?
Deal?
DEAL!
Legal text?
LEGAL TEXT!
No Legal Text?
NO LEGAL TEXT!
Extension?
EXTENSION!
Deal?
No Deal?

And so on

OP posts:
TheMShip · 15/10/2019 19:12

On the "level playing field" www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/eu-trade-what-level-playing-field

Key quote for me, referring to the negotiations under TM:

Will the EU expect the same solution for all these areas?
No. The EU will expect different sorts of commitments in these areas – depending on what its rules are now, and how good access the UK has in the future. Its minimum ask appears to be a “non-regression clause” - which would bind both sides not to move back from current levels of protection. The EU has included these in other FTAs.

As important as the commitments are mechanisms to oversee and enforce them, which range from political committees to full-scale judicial enforcement, and adequate sanctions against non-compliance. That will need to be set out in the final agreement.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/10/2019 19:20

this WA would enable a v hard Brexit and then a bonfire of regulations and also the welfare state

if you're right it's still not the end. British citizens can live in Northern Ireland, so can continue to enjoy European workers' and consumer rights. Hope NI is ready for an influx.

Can you explain to those of us totally reliant on the welfare state where we would get the money to furnish such a ridiculous suggestion?

Outsomnia · 15/10/2019 19:24

Best bet is to let UK leave with the best possible outcome re alignment, GFA in place, laws and protections for its citizens and EU workers under FOM up to now etc.

At this stage UK has all but left in theory, and if it stays will forever be a thorn in the side of the EU anyway.

Sorry to say this as a staunch Remainer, but am totally fed up now and will accept we are out, but hope the tenets of the EU remain for us all.

Hope I said. Not sure if they will, but onwards and upwards. There has to be give and take if UK want to trade with EU imminently without having to wait another ten years in negotiations.

Funny how we all knew this years ago.

lonelyplanetmum · 15/10/2019 19:33

Am hearing from various sources that #Johnson is -conceding dynamic alignment with EU customs regs &singlemarket rules for #NorthernIreland -opposing EU-UK level playing field on workers rights/env standards/health&safety

It's funny isn't it.

Leavers deny that EU law only has a limited remit. They make out it governs. everything. Which.it.Does.Not.

We all know the truth. The EU treaties only agreed on limited spheres that protect individuals in a trading context. Some workers rights, environment, food and product safety. That's it.

Yet when it actually comes to the wire the truth is revealed. The controlling fringe Tories show their true colours -the only consensual 'interference' was on limited individual rights and it's those protections they always resented.

What gets me is the 17 million facilitated this -seeing it as some kind of revolution.

And do you know what in the next 5-10 years of negotiating the precise detail of our trade agreement those things will still have to be addressed anyway.

tobee · 15/10/2019 19:45

It pisses me off that the Leave Campaign, and most especially, Johnson have so clearly been proved to be talking out their arses for the last x number of years since they set up the campaign. Just basically "let's win this!" "Let's not spare a thought for the reality. Gullible electorate will fall for this shit!" So they win, and everything anyone has said about how tricky leaving the EU will be has been widely denounced by Leavers. Only now are they beginning to deal with the reality. There's not going to be any shame, embarrassment, comeuppance or whatever. Johnson is likely to be rewarded with a majority government if anything. So many people are to blame for this.

Remainers have been proven to be entirely correct as far as I can see.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2019 20:18

cherin The EU specify minimum standards that must be followed; the UK exceeds these sometimes

The ERG plan is to remove current UK rights and set us back to the level in the worst of the US states
(not the best)

e.g.
Workers
could be fired without notice & without any reason, individually or en masse, regardless of how long they have been working somewhere
2 weeks annual holiday, no paid maternity leave, no right to have your job back, no right to join a trade union

Consumers
would lose rights as the US FTA would remove any requirement to label country of origin, to prevent consumers boycotting US meat & poultry of lower standard
No requirement to label GMO foods

Environment
many regulations on on recycling, air quality, water quality, waste dumping, fracking etc would be removed

Outsomnia · 15/10/2019 20:20

Trying to be nice and not judgmental here, but the Press has a lot to answer for here. Compare and contrast to Ireland's Press. All fact and analysis, it is so refreshing. Even though it is not without its faults now and then admittedly.. It is where I go to for my news now. Especially Tony Connelly.

Is there something I could call the readers of certain papers or should I desist right now. Probably should get back in my box.

But I think I have made my point.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2019 20:23

Brexit & Workers' rights

JRM:
“We could say, if it’s good enough in India, it’s good enough for here. There’s nothing to stop that.

Priti Patel boasted to the Institute of Directors about the "bonfire of workers' rights" she wants after Brexit.

The Open Europe (pro-Brexit) think tank
have a hit list of workers' rights to repeal which they claim bring zero benefit to business, just costs, including:

. Working time rules (£4 billion a year )
. Agency worker regulations (£500 million)
. Parental & maternity leave regulations (a snitch at £60 million a year)
. Harassment regs flowing from EU law (£180 million)
. Various health & safety regs (e.g. asbestos regulations £23 million)

A similar Brexit group, Economists for Britainn_, also identified removing sex equality and working time

Poetryinaction · 15/10/2019 20:25

Would it be a good idea to buy dollars today, or wait it out until later in the week? I go to the US on holiday soon. Thanks

tobee · 15/10/2019 20:26

Hmmm just seen story about Sky News Brexit free pop up news channel. Hmm

cherin · 15/10/2019 20:28
Confused Angry

A race to the bottom, indeed

ContinuityError · 15/10/2019 20:30

This “Burned” book looks interesting.

Family of former DUP special adviser stood to earn £6m from RHI, book claims

www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2019/10/15/news/the-family-of-a-former-dup-special-adviser-stood-to-earn-6m-from-rhi-1738761/

cherin · 15/10/2019 20:30

poetry who knows?? The rate to euro is as good as its ever been in the last months, but....could swing .1/0.2 either way depending on how close a pen is to paper...

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 15/10/2019 20:31

I certainly glad my pregnancy and maternity leave days are behind me looking at that lot.

Is there a timeline of possible events anywhere? What happens when bozo fails to meet the deadline tonight? Nothing and we just wait for him to have to request an extension by Saturday?

Poetryinaction · 15/10/2019 20:33

Cheers cherin. It's not loads I'll be changing, so I think I'll go for it tonight.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2019 20:49

Most countries expect Brexshit will reduce UK power in the world:

Philip Boucher-Hayes@boucherhayes
From the @BangkokPostNews cartoonist Mor:

Westminstenders: Showdown
ContinuityError · 15/10/2019 20:51

Mark “Weebles Wobble But They Don’t Fall Down” Francois doesn’t look very happy this evening.

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