Westministenders: Slow News Fake News

[RedToothBrush]

Things have been slow whilst we are in proroguation, ahead of next weeks Queen's Speech and the EU summit.

We've been in full spin mode, from the likes of the far right and an unnamed source at No.10.

People seem to be waking up to the reality that its highly unlikely we will get a deal now, unless something significant. And No.10 has worked out the NI problem. FINALLY.

Anyway, if you have a little time this week and you are interested in the history of where technology change and fake news meet and how where we are now is merely things repeating themselves, Ian Hislop's Fake News: A True History, is essential viewing.
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00095hv/ian-hislops-fake-news-a-true-history

I really feel strongly this is stuff that should be being taught in schools somehow as its what protects us from extremism.

A ref - to repair the damage of the previous one - would make more sense before a GE

However, the problem is that it is difficult to see how that can be achieved in the current HoC
The Lexiters in the Rebel Alliance would oppose a PV - 19 of them have written asking for a deal by 31 October

Also, for a PV to be widely acceptable - not just to Remainers - it would really need to get the Tory party officially on board as well, not just additional Tory rebels sacrificing their careers.

Otherwise, any Remain result could well over-ridden by the next Tory govt

Wow TokyoSushi. I was trying to work it out from the photos. Thornton is about 5 mins from my parents too. Lucky Wirral hosting Johnson.

There were rumours that the EU might agree to which is different to "offer" a backstop arrangement for the border on the island of Ireland that could be terminated if both communities in Stormont agreed to that. Effectively taking away the DUP's veto.

It is unlikely that Stormont would ever agree to borders being put up, even if the mythical technological solutions were to materialise, so that would in effect mean that NI was permanently in the backstop (CU + SM).

Personally, I don't see what's wrong with that - although I can see why some Scots might be disgruntled with that it goes without saying that the DUP would hate it

But there is the other issue that the UK would have to agree to the "level playing field" that is the foundation of the SM - so that would mean not changing workers' rights and environmental protections.

Somehow I don't see that happening, even if on the face of it, it is an elegant solution.

Sorry to hear thing are so tough, 54321 💐

I recommend you don't make any important decisions or commitments until you have recovered, physically & MH
(except of course if your doctors require decisions)
You need to concentrate on getting yourself well again, before you can plan to help others.

Also, if you do escape the dreaded MN cull this time, avoid even reading other threads except Westministenders and maybe the litter tray
Hide AIBU and anything else that could bring stress, or temptation to post.

I admit I may have missed it discussed on a previous thread, but did I hear something about the EU offering a joint veto and backstop lasting 5 years or something? ( I mentioned it up thread but noone responded)

Yes, it was a variant that gave the opportunity to cease the backstop after 5 years based on the consent of both nationalist and unionist communities, the logic being that if both communities consented to this, they would effectively be consenting to a border, and therefore the proscription of a border in the GFA would be superseded by cross-community consent for one.

Of course, in reality this means a permanent back-stop to all intents and purposes, as it’s inconceivable that nationalists would ever vote for a border.

Besides, not only did the DUP object to this, but Sinn Fein too (as presumably even the theoretical possibility of a border that this brings is unacceptable), so the idea probably won’t gajn traction.

Also, I think the suggestion was that both communities would have to agree to leave the backstop, not to stay in

which would in effect make the backstop permanent

oops, crosspost

Lewis Goodall@lewis_goodall
Have spoken to a few Labour MPs this morning. Was their view (from across wings of the party) that there would be strong resistance from PLP for an election now, even after extension (especially if it’s only until January)...

Another Lab source says that departure of Karie Murphy also tips balance away from those in LOTO office keen for election now (hers was strong voice for that with Milne). Now McDonnell in ascendancy who is more sceptical...

Katie Murphy has temporarily left Lab HQ to focus on Lab GE strategy.

I totally was alway told that PE was a fringe conspiracy paper? Is it not?

Why not read it, and come to your own conclusions ?

Re Private Eye: it's not a fringe conspiracy paper, even though that's what the establishment would like to portray.

Sometimes it is a bit conspiraciest but often it shines light into murky secrets that the establishment would love prefer to keep hidden and it takes a while for MSM to pick up the stories. At which point the establishment goes, " but we never knew"

Thanks for that Just.
I wish Tony would just fuck off, he has on objective and thats to keep the neo-liberal centre right happy, he really can FOTTFSOF

I'm not a particular TB fan, But, if you watch the interview, there's a certain logic to what he says. In elections, parties have to state their manifesto promises on every policy.

(I am dreading the campaigns of either a ref or an election. It will get nasty.)

54321 wishing you well and hoping you aren't banned x

Well, I've spent my morning trying to find bed for a pregnant client fleeing domestic violence. She's been sleeping on the floor.

Private Eye like to point out conflicts of interest and hypocrisy on the part of people in positions of power.

There is enough of this to generate a significant amount of content.

They also are shit hot on making sure they aren't libellous.

I think the question is whether they need to generate conspiracy stories or just do digging.

Faisal Islam@faisalislam
Government pushed ahead with countdown phase of these ”Get Ready” ads...

am I missing something? These preparations are only necessary for No Deal Brexit - Deal Brexit means transition & all arrangements remain same.

No deal = extension or courts

“There might only be 25 days”?

The former Number 10 pollster @jamesjohnson252 wrote in Times yesterday that £138m ad campaign involves an attempt to “make Brexit and no deal synonymous” motivated by fact that polling shows effectiveness of argument that no deal does not reflect the 2016 referendum result...

Government in a fact sheet put out last night says it is trying to encourage preparedness and that action more likely when people know there is less than 30 days, and there is no politicisation, no ministerial direction.

doesn’t Benn act mean Oct 31st against law? “No...”

Wd be very interesting to see what the creative brief to Engine Group actually said re the elision of Brexit and No Deal Brexit in these taxpayer funded adverts...

Also - if the letter gets sent & accepted, what happens to the campaign?

Businesses meeting ministers of course repeatedly express doubts about government’s assertions around Oct 31st, given Benn Act. Some report back nuance in private conversations (ie more like we should leave not we WILL leave)

Others have concluded election will come on Nov 28th.

I actually have a lot of time for what Tony Blair is saying on Brexit.

The fact that he was dead wrong on Iraq does not mean that he is not righ when he advocates a PV.

(I am also a bit fed up with the demonisation of TB by the Corbyn fan club. I do not believe Corbyn is a saint, I do not believe he is a far-left communist. I do not believe Jo Swinson is a closet tory. I wish we could all be a bit more nuanced in the way we see politicians...I am willing to make an exception for BJ though, as there is no doubt is a fucking liar )

54321
Be kind to yourself hey?]

Jennifer Rankin @jennifermerode
Nigel Farage and the Brexit party have voted against a European parliament resolution calling for stronger EU action to counter election meddling and Russian disinformation.

Highlights from resolution here.

Private Eye gets some strange bees in bonnets, and is wrong quite a bit. They are also significantly often right. The Bristol heart surgery scandal being the most obvious.

More readable link to that EU parliament resolution:

B9‑0108/2019 European Parliament resolution on foreign electoral interference and disinformation in national and European democratic processes (2019/2810(RSP))
www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/B-9-2019-0108_EN.html

23Squared

I totally was alway told that PE was a fringe conspiracy paper? Is it not?

If I sound snippy or rude, then I hope other posters can vouch for me as being more robust than insulting, but that statement has really irked me. More than I realised at first. Seeing 2 other posters respond is probably why I am expanding on what may have seemed a snippy answer. And this isn't directed at any individual, but is intended to be an observation or commentary on the case.

Private Eye - like the Labour, UKIP, LibDem or Tory manifesto is not some sort of secret publication than has a select circulation and is closely guarded. If anyone is curious as to "what it's all about" (as indeed I was aged 15, when I started reading it) then it's the work of a moment to pop into a W.H. Smugs and have a mini-browse before shelling out the necessaries, taking a copy home, reading it, and deciding for yourself what it is, and whether it's for you or not.

The fact that question was asked in that manner on this forum just reminded me of the discussions yesterday of people who - despite not knowing the first thing about Labours policy on anything have already decided they could never vote for Corbyn - based on what they'd heard other people say.

I admit there are some - many things - that we are all unable to verify confirm or examine in minute detail and are obliged to take on trust that the experts have got it right. But there's no excuse when it's something as simple as looking in a copy of a magazine to make your own mind up.

It all seems very teenage music clique, and "I don't like reggae/punk/jazz/whatever".

Rant over. Peace and love ...

Peace and love

As Ringo Starr said to fans while also telling them to fuck off and leave him alone!!

Oli dugmore @olidugmore
I have discovered file photographs of Dominic Cummings smoking in 2001.

He really does fancy himself as a Tarantino figure doesn't he?

As Ringo Starr said to fans while also telling them to fuck off and leave him alone!!

Well, I'm not fucking off anywhere.

Even if you do ask .

He really does fancy himself as a Tarantino figure doesn't he?

Mr -- ?

Now I've seen all three pictures, my "Is that Andrew Maxwell ?" stands.