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Brexit
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Westminstenders: Pro Rogues

984 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/10/2019 21:51

The Pro Rogues plan to prorogue again this week.

The Queen might be challenged to sack Johnson. Or he might be forced to extend.

It depends on which newspaper you read. Either way it strikes you that no one really knows what's going to happen...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
42
thecatfromjapan · 09/10/2019 17:38

Nice article in The Conversation discussing a 'poll of polls' showing that people have turned against Brexit & Mr Cummings' strategy of turning this into Parliament versus the People isn't working:

www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/britain-has-turned-against-brexit-biggest-ever-poll-of-polls-says/09/10/

Tanith · 09/10/2019 17:39

Newsthump's take on that Leave.EU poster

Britain did not laugh or cheer. Britain is appalled.

MockersthefeMANist · 09/10/2019 17:45

It is also influenced by demographic changes with more young people, who tend to support staying in the EU, becoming eligible to vote, and elderly people, who voted out in larger numbers, passing away.

That's about the size of it. This was a vote for petrol in gallons and the giblets put back in the chicken.

DGRossetti · 09/10/2019 17:46

The last thing the NHS - and the social care system - needs is up to 300,000 pensioners returning to the UK. As well as the expense, they should be aware of the difficulty of finding extra hospital beds & services, GP surgeries, staff ...

I won't even bother to check, but I can guarantee that the geography of where the returning end up will be the worst possible outcome for the UK. Because as I said upthread, there isn't a problem in the world that isn't made worse by Brexit.

So look at areas where health and social care are already stretched to breaking, plus a shortage of suitable accessible housing, and add your 300,000 into them.

I wonder if they'll be Tory voters or Labour voters. Somehow I can't see them being particularly Tory.

thecatfromjapan · 09/10/2019 17:48

BCF
I hope it doesn't come to that.

I don't know what to say, really, apart from the observation that they at least seem to be trying to keep you informed & supported.

Our government is disgraceful, really.

MockersthefeMANist · 09/10/2019 17:49

Destitute sick pensioners coming in, EU doctors and nurses going in the opposite direction.

DGRossetti · 09/10/2019 17:54

Destitute sick pensioners coming in, EU doctors and nurses going in the opposite direction.

There a horrible symmetry with the Windrush ....

DGRossetti · 09/10/2019 17:57

That newsthump article is strangely serious, for satire. Not that I disapprove - but it seems to make a point beyond satire ...

mrslaughan · 09/10/2019 18:00

Thank @catfromjapan
If certain posters cared to look before calling me rabidly right wing that would have seen I will happily vote labour (well I have to keep an eye on my electorate) - and I LIKE their brexit policy. I honestly think it's the best option. I was merely pointing out that he is not liked by centrists in my family.
There seems to be a swing towards political purity - which no matter which side of the fence you are - is concerning.
Alienating voters because you believe in a certain sort of purity and they don't, is really not going to bring this country back together. And that's fucking sad.

tobee · 09/10/2019 18:08

There is a certain element of the Labour Party that seems to think the best course of action is to alienate as many potential voters as possible, @mrslaughan. This is why I'm continually wondering if they are the slightest bit interested in becoming a government. Most evidence points to the contrary I feel.

DGRossetti · 09/10/2019 18:09

Food for thought ...

Westminstenders: Pro Rogues
DGRossetti · 09/10/2019 18:09

and ...

Westminstenders: Pro Rogues
thecatfromjapan · 09/10/2019 18:09

I read your post, mrslaughan.

For what it's worth, I'm very tired of purity politics. Really, really tired. These last 3 years have been a horrible display of the ugliness of intransigence. I'm bone weary with it.
And vicious attacks on various politicians and people with a differing (but still within the bounds of reasonable) views.

I just find it horrible.

Anyway, politics isn't politics if you can't persuade people and people can't switch views. And this GE will be all about tactical voting, or accepting some things they don't like as a trade for things they do.

I'm tired of vehemence and dissimulation.

tobee · 09/10/2019 18:11

What is the provenance of the second photo DGR?

thecatfromjapan · 09/10/2019 18:13

I don't think any of my last post made sense.

🤷‍♀️

Maybe it was just a bleat of despair.

DGR That post about housework and the unconscious tyranny of 'self-care' (or self care when it turns bad and an obligation you fail) cheered me up no end.

Violetparis · 09/10/2019 18:17

Your post made perfect sense to me cat, I am tired of it all too.

Basilpots · 09/10/2019 18:22

I understand Cat. It’s almost like there cannot be any grey areas anymore. Everything has to be black and white when the reality is human beings are complex.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/10/2019 18:26

John Major was often called the "Grey Man"
I liked the fact he wasn't an idealogue

HeyNotInMyName · 09/10/2019 18:27

Although, as a social experiment, it will be fascinating to see if immigrant UK pensioners receive the same hatefest that non-UK immigrants (who worked and paid taxes) did.
I wouldnt be surpirsed if few people were batting an eye lid. They will all be parents/uncle etc... fo someone and there will be a lot of talk about how they went to spend their RETIREMENT in europe.
They will also have the right type of name and the right accent. Something immigrants will rarely acheive.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/10/2019 18:31

Labour MPs warned by party's Irish society of 'severe' impact on Northern Ireland if they back Boris Johnson's Brexit deal

That's the Labour Leave MPs who reportedly feel tempted to back BJ

It's pointless anyway voting for that, as the EU would never agree to it,
but it sends a worrying signal to NI that it's not just Tory Brexiters who would ignore harm to NI

https://amp.businessinsider.com/labour-irish-society-warns-mps-boris-johnson-brexit-deal-2019-10?

BigChocFrenzy · 09/10/2019 18:34

Sam Coates Skyy@SamCoatesSky*

Number 10 aren’t commenting tonight on the manifesto promise Damian Green thinks he got earlier.

Understand the thinking in No10 is that no options off the table,
might yet have to be no deal in the manifesto,

and there’s a suspicion Damian Green over interpreted his meeting.

Tanith · 09/10/2019 18:35

DGRossetti I thought so, too, and I also think they are spot on with that article. I hope Angela Merkel has seen it.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 09/10/2019 18:42

EP debate
BXP being the usual childish embarassment to the UK

Lewis Goodall@lewisgoodall

Virtually every MEP who has spoken (save Brexit Party etc) has supported an Article 50 extension.

@RCorbettMEP:
"I urge you to grant the extension.
Not only to avoid no deal but also for British democratic processes to play out, a general election a referendum, possibly both...

put the actual Brexit deal on the table and you will see the outcome might be the right one."

MEP after MEP has risen in support of Michel Barnier and to speak against Boris Johnson's proposals.

French MEP Fabienne Keller:
"The proposals from Boris Johnson really do not hold water.
We need an agreement but not at any cost."

It is notable that in the debate in the European Parliament this afternoon, those rising to support British efforts and to join in condemnation of the EU are from very extremist parties:
Vox, Golden Dawn, AfD...

@MaireadMcGMEP
(in the chair) scolding Brexit Party MEPs for "tittering" and "rudeness" to other speakers, especially British remain MEPs, making their speeches.

@guyverhofstadt
"I cannot believe that some 20 or so Labour MPs might think about voting for such a deal. It is contrary to everything Labour has stood for in the past."

@guyverhofstadt
I will be less diplomatic than Michel Barnier. Boris Johnson's proposals were not serious at all."

Barnier topped and tailed that with diplomatic nicety.
But the meat was an unadulerated excoriation of the British position.
A deal feels very distant.