Westminstenders: Pro Rogues

[RedToothBrush]

The Pro Rogues plan to prorogue again this week.

The Queen might be challenged to sack Johnson. Or he might be forced to extend.

It depends on which newspaper you read. Either way it strikes you that no one really knows what's going to happen...

It still doesn't seem to have sunk in with the UK government that EU governments (and indeed journalists and a large proportion of the populace) can read English, too.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/09/transparent-outrageous-european-papers-no-10-brexit-strategy

This has been a constant issue throughout the whole Brexit cock-up, hence all the bleating that we must keep No Deal on the table as a negotiating tactic. Ministers have been constantly shouting about what we're going to do, while claiming that we need to keep our negotiating cards hidden. You'd think no-one in the Eu can afford a subscription to the Heil, Express, Torygraph, Spectator et al. and have no idea what we're thinking.

The problem for UK expats is that all except the most recent moved abroad and made major life decisions, never imagining that their EU rights would be removed.

Totally different to non-EEA expats, who knew from the start that they didn't have the rights of EU citizens and hence put in place all they needed.
I suspect they also learn the language ....

Embarassing, but I've recently come across a Brit who has been here 26 years - and hasn't learned German
When he applies to continue residence after Brexit, he'll need to hope the German Foreigners office have English forms and people who can speak English, or take a German speaker with him

I wonder how many other Brits in the 27 countries, have this problem

British in Europe - Autumn newsletter:

https://mailchi.mp/5cf6ceb55972/newsletter090919?fbclid=IwAR3kZC8oMKoD731RDvXNxpwLE28sm4BVirui2vC1fUS6e2eh6wxCkkfvQjQ

We will point out in Brussels, London and in member states that Britons in Europe face a huge loss of rights as we transition from EU citizenship to third-country-national status,
with little scope for oversight from the European Commission.

We will explain how, with No Deal, we will be under twenty-seven different legal systems and contingency plans, many of which are sketchy or depend on reciprocity from the UK.

In parallel, we will continue lobbying HMG
for lifelong pension uprating, for home university fees,
for a long-term commitment to support S1 healthcare and social security coordination
and for the right of Britons to return to the UK with their family members.

Parliament will be in session during the Anti Brexit march on 19th October
Even more reason to turn up and Be Heard

Well next Saturday should be interesting! I'm just hunkering down and holding on.

I wonder how many other Brits in the 27 countries, have this problem

A lot ...

In France, Britons who are active in the labour market tend to speak reasonable or good French. Retirees and those who are self-employed (often working for English employers or serving the expat market) tend to have very little French. You need European level B1 or maybe B2 for citizenship I believe (unless you are over 60).

You'd think no-one in the Eu can afford a subscription to the Heil, Express, Torygraph, Spectator et al. and have no idea what we're thinking.

That's before the fact that there are more than enough people in the UK who are happily keeping their friends and family in the EU up to date with the latest goings on.

Brexiteers not only claim to have won the last war. They think they are still fighting it. It's really not so hard to see them all huddled over a plotting table, with little markers for incoming stories, and pushing their own markers around to counter attack with squadrons from the Express and Mail. Presumably making the Telegraph the heavy bomber of choice.

@ListeningQuietly That's very much my take on it, the more people the stronger the case.

That and making sure that every person you know, particularly the younger ones, are registered to vote.

I have time to possibly make a good fabric banner next week (and I have the infrastructure to carry it from the Suffragette march). What shall I put on it? It's going to be triangular, EU blue with yellow pompoms round the side for the stars

Brexiteers not only claim to have won the last war. They think they are still fighting it.

Why else do you think they’ve called Parliament in to sit on a Saturday?

WW2, Suez, Falklands ... Johnson having his Churchill moment

Following on from the article upthread, is another warning that the UK is in no position to throw any weight around.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/09/ex-mi6-chief-criticises-threat-to-withdraw-security-cooperation-with-eu

A former MI6 chief has said Brexit negotiations have got to “an extraordinarily damaging state” because unnamed Downing Street officials have been briefing that the UK might withdraw security cooperation with the EU.

Sir John Sawers said any attempt to stop working with EU countries in tackling terrorism “would be an act contrary to our own self-interest” in a briefing to reporters at a technology summit.

...

Sawers highlighted that the UK would lose access to airline passenger name records and the ability to use European arrest warrants in the event of a no deal Brexit. Police have also warned that there would no longer be fast access to intelligence in the Schengen Information System II database.

The former spy chief added he was concerned about the impact of a no-deal Brexit in security terms, saying that the withdrawal agreement negotiated by Theresa May but rejected repeatedly by parliament, contained provisions that would allow the UK and Europe to share “a single security space”.

He warned that otherwise the UK would have to “start with a blank sheet of paper and have to start all over again. And the UK would would not have the automatic right of have access to those facilities. That will be a loss in itself.”

lonelyplanetmum

I can see just what you are saying. But the way you describe Boris is as if he is a child. That's the way children think. He's an adult and quite old. Despite everything you say making such sense, I still can't understand how a grown man can think and see the world in such a simplistic way.

OK - I get that his possible 'charm' has enabled him to be forgiven too many times in the past. But now. Everything is going wrong. He's hated. I don't believe all the nonsense about so much support out there for him. I really don't. It's hype - and that's all.

He can see that everything's going wrong. He can see the fury that he's creating. He's not being told that any of this is OK. Yes the Conservative party are being a bunch of somethings still holding onto him. And why are they? Their refusal to remove him is more perplexing than Boris.

The only conclusion I can come to is that they have all (Boris included) been brainwashed by Cummings and joined a Right Wing cult.

But that can't be it either ...

Sorry my original question probably wasn't the right one. I still can't really understand why Boris is bashing through with this - at this point anyway - but a better question would be why oh why oh why are the Conservatives allowing him to do this?

In parallel, we will continue lobbying HMG for lifelong pension uprating, for home university fees, for a long-term commitment to support S1 healthcare and social security coordination and for the right of Britons to return to the UK with their family member

Sadly HMGs monolingual reply will be "fuck off".

So Turkey have begun their Syria air strikes, just to add to that happy feeling!

(Sarcasm alert there)

He [BJ] can see that everything's going wrong. He can see the fury that he's creating.

You're assuming that he cares

He is a sociopathic narcissist who thinks the world revolves around him - and thinks that all those who doesn't believe that he is as good as "king of the world" (as Rachel described him as having wanted to be when he was young) are just the "little people" and not worth bothering about

Cummings on the other hand is a psychopathic anarchistic narcissist who doesn't care who and what he destroys in creating his superior vision of a "new" society

Interesting that Cendrillon's posts make me much more likely to vote Labour than Just's. Maybe that's the point 🤔?

Wrt DGR musing on people vote Tory because that's what they want to be, Labour because that's how they see themselves, my pil, avid Tory voters, now deceased, used to say that "the trouble with Labour is they don't know how to deal with personal aspiration". Although, living on a diet of the Daily Mail and The Daily Telegraph, I think they didn't realise that the Unions were set up to deal with that, or rather collective aspiration. A group being necessary to help workers who had no voice otherwise.

@tobee Interesting that Cendrillon's posts make me much more likely to vote Labour than Just's.

That’s what happened with me a few weeks back with Bear.

Thanks to those that responded to my question of what bugs you about Corbyn. Probably some valid concerns in there..
I think it's important to stop amidst all the JC bashing and examine exactly why he is so disliked by people, otherwise we're in danger of just adopting the narrative the Tories try to sell.
Sure you may think he's incompetent, useless, etc but he's not dangerous..and that's where we are with the Government.
I also find it amusing that lots of posters(not talking about anyone in particular) have said they/their mum/gran/cat etc couldn't POSSIBLY vote Labour with JC in charge... do you really think there is a credible alternative?

There's a very good quote that:

It is not enough to win. Others must lose.

No amount of promising everyone will be winners can ever overcome the seductive lure of wanting others to lose.

Ideally, religion should act as a moderator to that. But then people found a way to subvert that too. Hence the peculiar Anglo-Protestant horror of charity as somehow encouraging dependence. Which still pervades the most fundamental levels of the welfare state.

All this focussing on Corbyn/Johnson is ignoring the reality of our electoral system which is predicated upon returning a local representative.

Personally, I'm very happy with my incumbent (Labour) MP and frankly the fact that she has Corbyn for party leader is only a small part of why I'd happily vote for her whenever. The biggest single factor is the policy on Brexit.

Be curious what the results would be if people were made to lower their gunsights to go from here to the horizon, rather than as at present 20 miles over the horizon ....

The EU suggestion of both communities having their say is excellent . I agree, but will the DUP and Brexit Ultras go for it?

Does it matter ?

It matters a great deal! If the DUP and Ultras won’t toe the line, the Tories would likely lose a fair bit of the support from those who supported the Brexit Party until recently, and Farage would be shouting “surrender” at every opportunity through his mouthpieces of the Daily Express and Mail.

The Brexit vote would be more split than it currently is, and the Tories will be much more unlikely to win the subsequent election, and BJ is toppled as Tory leader in short order.

Also, I don’t think Cummings wants a deal... he’ll do everything he can to undermine it. This apparently very sensible offer from the EU could
well explode the Tory divisions.

So Sassoli - EU president - has been talking to John Bercow as well as Johnson. And they both agree, he says, about the important of parliament.

interesting.

Surely Johnson and Cummings will split sooner than later? Presumably the upcoming operation will make this easier? Unless Johnson has been completely brainwashed they have totally different aims?

Wrt Carrie, I can't imagine I'm the only woman who doesn't see her as an icon to aspire to? To put it very mildly? Good grief!

Yep, DG

That's another reason why Uk expats have a lot more complicated future than non-EEA ones:
We depend on our own govt for many important things even abroad and they have turned on us - because we are traitors ?

Then of course many UK expat pensioners are relying on UK pensions, which have suddenly lost a lot of value and are likely to lose a lot more.
(Thank goodness I decided early 90s to switch mine to DM / Euros, because it looked safer)

If the state pension is not upgraded as for UK residents, that would be a double hit.

I don't for one moment think the EU bilateral Ireland suggestion was ever going to fly. And I would be amazed (and in all honesty a little disappointed) if they did either.

However, it does throw the onus squarely onto the UK to explain why (once again) it's not acceptable.

Meanwhile, the world watches and waits, and notes the real culprit for no deal will be the UK. And that fact will be squirrelled away for future use when it's most inconvenient for the UK.

It's a little like the "we'll trade on WTO" bollocks (which have gone quiet of late). The UK would have a blue fit if the rest of the world turned around and said "You know what, you're right. We can happily trade on WTO terms. No need for any deal ...."

I'm wondering if the end of all this will be a UK like North Korea, where the citizens (unable to leave, and cowed by the regime) genuinely believe they are the only superpower in the world.

If a WTO / No Deal Brexit was really so great, it would have been done over two years ago.
But those who make the decisions know it won't be
which is why they have decided not to do it.

However I cannot see how we get from where we are to where we need to be

Meanwhile, Stanley Johnson comments on Extinction Rebellion:-

Stanley Johnson praises Extinction Rebellion 'crusties' www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49987567