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Brexit

Westminstenders: Pro Rogues

984 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/10/2019 21:51

The Pro Rogues plan to prorogue again this week.

The Queen might be challenged to sack Johnson. Or he might be forced to extend.

It depends on which newspaper you read. Either way it strikes you that no one really knows what's going to happen...

OP posts:
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JustAnotherPoster00 · 09/10/2019 15:20

Interesting that Cendrillon's posts make me much more likely to vote Labour than Just's.

Ouch lol

DGRossetti · 09/10/2019 15:23

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/09/tory-mps-react-with-fury-to-talk-of-no-deal-brexit-manifesto-promise

theguardian.com
Tory MPs react with fury to talk of no-deal Brexit manifesto promise
Kate Proctor
4-5 minutes
Boris Johnson in an advert posted on the Conservatives’ official Facebook page.
Boris Johnson in an advert posted on the Conservatives’ official Facebook page. Dominic Cummings’ desire to outflank the Brexit party has pitched the government against backbenchers. Photograph: Conservatives

Conservative MPs have launched a furious backlash against a mooted general election manifesto that pushes explicitly for a no-deal Brexit, with some threatening to quit.

Boris Johnson’s chief whip, Mark Spencer, and his parliamentary private secretary, James Heappey, have received a series of complaints in the past 24 hours from backbench MPs who say they cannot stand on a no-deal platform, after a Downing Street memo was sent out.

Concern around how Boris Johnson might want to fight a general election was heightened after a No 10 source wrote in a memo to the Spectator: “To marginalise the Brexit party, we will have to fight the election on the basis of ‘no more delays, get Brexit done immediately’.”

The note, which is widely believed to have been sent by Johnson’s chief strategist, Dominic Cummings, has been interpreted as No 10 gearing up to try and outflank the Brexit party leader, Nigel Farage, by going to the public with a no-deal offer at the polls.

The home secretary, Priti Patel, repeated the government’s commitment to leave the EU on 31 October “come what may”.

Expectations that up to 50 Tories would choose not stand for their party at the next election in protest, could be an under-estimate, according to one source. They said the group of 100-plus One Nation Tories were all extremely worried about the government’s potential direction.

The former cabinet minister Damian Green is meeting the prime minister on Wednesday to tell him that many MPs cannot support a no-deal manifesto.

One backbencher said: “It’s pretty much the only conversation taking place on the backbenches at the moment and it’s going down very poorly.
“The whole One Nation group would struggle with it. I do not see that there’s a democratic mandate based on a 52-48 referendum result for a no-deal Brexit.

“People are kicking off about it. I really don’t see it’s going to be the policy.
It’s a non-starter. There will be a haemorrhaging of Conservative members of parliament if this happens – they won’t stand.”

Asked whether they would consider their own position, they said: “Yeah, I do feel like that.”

There are more than 100 MPs on the One Nation Tory WhatsApp group and many are said to have written comments critical of Johnson’s potential strategy overnight.

The MP said they could not stand back and accept such a position because the “union would unravel like a gyroscope” and there would be a significant increase to the national debt.

“Do I want my kids in the playground being told by another kid that their mum or dad lost their job because of your parent?” they said.
Benn act

Another backbencher said they did not believe Johnson would really pursue a no-deal Brexit and would simply go back to the public with a strategy of getting the deal done should he get a majority, and explain to voters that he would immediately overturn the Benn act, which compels him to request an extension to Brexit.

“I don’t believe for a second we will have a policy of no deal,” they said.

The former Tory attorney general Dominic Grieve who now sits as an independent, described the No 10 memo sent to the Spectator as “propaganda”.

He said: “This is a government that is now no longer governing in the traditional sense – it is engaging in propaganda.”

He said the Benn act, which requires the PM to ask for an extension from the EU if there is no agreement with the EU by 19 October, remained watertight.

Should Johnson try and get round it, he said the alliance of MPs campaigning against no deal were in a “reasonable place” to counter him.

Basilpots · 09/10/2019 15:29

Just I do appreciate your take on things.

I am having a little rest on your lefty bench for now. Wink

Bear nearly had me joining Momentum Grin

JustAnotherPoster00 · 09/10/2019 15:32

Bear nearly had me joining Momentum

That literally made me snort

JustAnotherPoster00 · 09/10/2019 15:34

Andrew Adonis
@Andrew_Adonis
‘How can the British government put half of Theresa May’s deal back on the table and claim that is a compromise?’ asks Leo Varadkar

Good question

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 09/10/2019 15:37

I'd be voting for the party not their leader. Leaders come and go but ethos and principles stay the same. Corbyn doesn't have the great leadership qualities but I remember Major was a bit of a dull leader. Corbyn has been targeted and subjected to much negativity out by the press and you have to wonder why. If he's not a threat then why bother slating him? I'd never vote Tory but I'm not comfortable with labour and Lib Dem's stance on women's rights. However, brexit is the most important thing right now and as a remainer I'd vote Lib Dem. No one is the perfect leader, the perfect politician. My constituency is Tory but has previously been Lib Dem. Wragg is an ineffectual waste of space and it's the Lib Dem's who get anything done round here.

Bodoni · 09/10/2019 15:38

DGR’s comment about charity reminded me of some newspaper research I did when I found an ancestor, a Somerset collier (who died at 40, poor man) and his wife were married by a Curate Rees Mogg in 1831.
I looked up what else the Rees Moggs were doing in Somerset - one signed a letter thanking the Cavalry and Lancers for intervening against the desperate miners in 1817 (but “most sincerely deplored the distresses and difficulties with which it hath pleased the Almighty God to visit his people”).
One was Secretary of the Clutton Association for the Protection of Property for many years - cholera was raging amongst the miners at the time - and two of them were prominent in establishing the Clutton Union (Workhouse), getting the workhouse built, and acted as its Clerks for decades - one ended up as its Chairman. JRM’s ancestor owned one of the coalfields. It’d make a good period drama.

Sorry, a bit of derail - but many people now don't know about 19th century poverty, except for Dickens, and how the likes of JRM put the boot in.

DGRossetti · 09/10/2019 15:41

Trumps declared he won't comply with impeachment ....

Maybe it's wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. But for some reason I have a touch more faith in the US system than the UK. Probably because it's all written down.

Is this some bizarre re-run of 1974 ? Is Mike Pence ready with the pardon-cannon ?

tobee · 09/10/2019 15:42

For clarity, I think Just is entirely genuine.

DGRossetti · 09/10/2019 15:44

DGR’s comment about charity reminded me of some newspaper research I did when I found an ancestor, a Somerset collier (who died at 40, poor man) and his wife were married by a Curate Rees Mogg in 1831.

Did you catch the Jack Whitehall "Who Do You Think You Are ?" ? He experienced a similar uncovering of his family tree. At least he had the grace to appear ashamed of it.

DarlingNikita · 09/10/2019 15:46

If he's not a threat then why bother slating him?

I think the whole tone of the media and of politics has just gone up several gears in terms of aggressiveness and vitriol.

DGRossetti · 09/10/2019 15:53

I think the whole tone of the media and of politics has just gone up several gears in terms of aggressiveness and vitriol.

Based on the square root of fuck all really.

If the papers really want to lay into a party leader, with good cause, I can find them one who has lied repeatedly, been sacked from a ministerial position, been involved in some highly dubious looking deals, had police called to a domestic abuse incident at his girlfriends house and who has been caught on phone discussing paying someone to commit GBH. And who can't put on a tie straight either.

Bodoni · 09/10/2019 16:00

DGR - Jack Whitehall "Who Do You Think You Are ?" - sorry I missed it. Just reading up about it, thanks!

averylongtimeago · 09/10/2019 16:00

Forgive me if I've missed something- if the Kinnock amendment says parliament has to vote again on the WA, and it is passed, does that mean the UK has to leave or would it still allow a closer relationship (SM, CU, FOM etc) or even revoke?

So if it is passed, does it make no deal impossible but leave the way open for a closer deal/revoke PV?

TheMShip · 09/10/2019 16:02

Do you believe in fairies too, Damien?

Rowena Mason
(@rowenamason)
Damian Green, leader of the One Nation caucus of MPs, says Boris Johnson told him at meeting:

  • he will not go into election promising no deal Brexit
  • he will not make a pact with Nigel Farage.
"We looked each other in the eye. I accept and believe the reassurances," says Green
JustAnotherPoster00 · 09/10/2019 16:15

Based on the square root of fuck all really

But he rides a chairman mao bike, he wears a commie hat, he doesnt bow low enough, he makes jam surely these have to be taken seriously I mean he could be PM 1 day, dont you get it DGR

HE RIDES A COMMIE BIKE PROBABLY WITH A COMMIE HAT ON UNDER HIS HELMET THINKING ABOUT HOW TO MAKE TERRORIST JAM!!!! Fgs you need to be taking this seriously he could be a danger to the country, what if he makes us all have to eat horrendous lime and ginger marmalade

DGRossetti · 09/10/2019 16:17

Forgive me if I've missed something- if the Kinnock amendment says parliament has to vote again on the WA, and it is passed, does that mean the UK has to leave or would it still allow a closer relationship (SM, CU, FOM etc) or even revoke?

A50 would have expired, so revoke isn't possible.

However, as far as I can see, if the WA were signed and accepted, and a subsequent UK government expressed a desire to rejoin the EU, there's no reason why it wouldn't be done starting with the provisions of the WA and moving up. Although it would be hard to characterise is as anything other than the UK being "on probation" for what would probably be a long time (more than one government sitting).

I'm not very optimistic that the UK will remain in the EU. However that is now a sideshow to the matter of ensuring the shitshow collection of cunts that go to make up the ERG, Leave.eu, UKIP and BXP are in no position to benefit from the fruits of their illegal, immoral, divisive and downright evil actions. It would be like a murderer benefiting from a victims will.

DGRossetti · 09/10/2019 16:18

But he rides a chairman mao bike, he wears a commie hat,

I swear I heard the music to "My Old Mans a Dustman" reading that ....

JustAnotherPoster00 · 09/10/2019 16:18

I'll will add that I'm not sure how you make jam out of terrorists but I'm sure that marxist bastard has a way to do it and he probably hides it under his bed, with all the legions of reds under there ready to be mobilised at a moments notice

JustAnotherPoster00 · 09/10/2019 16:19

DGR Grin

DGRossetti · 09/10/2019 16:22

It would never happen, but it would be amusing if all the EU27 pro-EU groups took out full page newspaper adverts and paid for TV ads where they publicly thank Farage and all his lickspittles for doing more for European Unity than the combined might of Napoleon, the Nazis, Red Army and Mussolini.

in fact, I wonder if we could find a way to #NewCharlemagne Farage ?

And I don't mean in any ironic way. But a genuine heartfelt thanks. Because I'd love to see Brexiteers tiny brains trying to work out how they should react ....

Anyway,

back to reality. Back to life. Back to the here and now yeah ....

DGRossetti · 09/10/2019 16:23

I'll will add that I'm not sure how you make jam out of terrorists but I'm sure that marxist bastard has a way to do it and he probably hides it under his bed, with all the legions of reds under there ready to be mobilised at a moments notice

There's also the matter that no one knows where he was when Kennedy was shot. Pinko bastard.

mrslaughan · 09/10/2019 16:30

@JustAnotherPoster00
My sister is a committed remainer but will not even consider voting labour for exactly the reasons cendrillon says. She is far from alone - pretty sure DH feels the same. That can't be ignored.

Its a shame that your family and partner is so rabidly right wing like cendrillion that they cant use critical thought to be able to distinguish bias in journalism

Jesus @JustAnotherPoster00 - you make huge assumptions. We're all centrist..... won't vote Tory , I have joined the Lib Dem's but don't feel there stance is helpful either in this shit show. The problem is they don't want a rabidly left wing or right wing government- and once you as a Labour voter/party member pull your head out of your arse and realise that that is who has got control of the Labour Party . Let me just point out that it's not just Corbyn, it's Milne , it's McDonnell and it's momentum's - it's there fucking anti Semitic behaviour (which they had a meeting on Friday of conf fgs to address - they REALLY want to sort that out don't they. ) and it's momentum of which I believe you are a member....... so no it's not about being extreme - which you obviously are - it's about being a centrist and not being fucking told we need to choose which flavour of extremism we want.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 09/10/2019 16:32

BBC Breaking News

We got to Laura Kuenssberg who has an anonymous source who has information on Corbyn calling Lee Harvey Oswald a friend

JustAnotherPoster00 · 09/10/2019 16:35

Corbyns policies are anything but rabidly left wing