Ireland and your vote.

[RuggerHug]

I am genuinely interested in all opinions here and I really hope that comes across. I don't want to start arguments or stir up hatred or insults. I've been on these boards for awhile and I know I've probably been quite ranty at times. I really want to not be here, so I'd like to ask everyone who voted, leave or remain, the following and I'd really appreciate your answers/thoughts.

Did ROI and NI play a part in your decision to vote whatever way?

Did the effect of a vote either way to NI and ROI occur at all, if so how?

Since the result, did anyone have a change of heart/become more sure of their vote based on what came out regarding ROI and NI afterwards?

Have you any thoughts on how we've been during it all/how our media portrays activities in the UK(if you're aware of what is said/shown here).

Hopefully this won't come across as trying to start a fight but, in all of this, did you care about us and the fallout or did you consider it not the UKs/anyone elses problem?

For disclosure, I'm Irish, in ROI, spent a lot of time at the border/in NI before the GFA, not as much after. Anyone I know in the UK that had a vote voted remain, I know 1 Leave voter(who lives in ROI).

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

It's issue is that this deal will put a border on the island of Ireland and go against the GFA which worked because both the UK and Ireland were in the EU

I trust those who live, or have lived, on the island of Ireland or have Irish ancestry (US for example) to have concerns over GFA. However, EU and UK mainland remain supporters I don’t trust at all. They think they have found a way to veto a referendum result they don’t like.

@isabellerossignol

No offence was meant using the word troubles. Can you advise me what word(s) should be used? I used that word as it still used here - in fact a recent BBC tv documentary series had it in the title. I'm aware that it is a painfully inadequate description.

@MysteryTripAgain , I have an Irish born Mum. Do you "trust" me?
I live in NW England and was caught up in one of the other Manchester bombs. Do you trust me?

Mystery what about all the remain voters with Irish parents, grandparents, spouses? Do they 'count'?

shushymcshush I don't find it offensive as such, and the troubles is generally how that period is referred to. I just personally don't like it because it seems like such a deliberate understatement, like it was just those pesky Irish having a bit of a kerfuffle over nothing, if you know what I mean?

Well Mystery, I think your issue there is that the members of the EU have not abandoned Ireland and thrown them under the bus like the UK government thought would happen. Most Europeans can look on and see the damage that Brexit will cause to the peace and economy in the island of Ireland. The problem with some English leavers is that they don't care, they don't care the damage that countless different UK government has done to the island of Ireland. It really doesn't matter if you try to educate them, they simply dont care. The real problem for them now is that they are actually shocked the little ole Ireland didn't just roll over and do what the great UK demanded. Their colonism is showing...

Upthread there are references to Bonnie Greer on QT the other week. I saw this and whilst it was a nice speech, can we really count on the US (Trump) and EU to save us all from a UK Gov-created mess of epic proportions?

If it was Obama or Clinton or maybe even Bush I'd say yes probably. But I'm concerned that BJ will write to ask for Brexit extension, his Hungarian "mates" say "no" to veto it and then BJ gets his no deal by default.

Will the US step in to protect the GFA, or is it more bothered about getting access to our markets (hence our lowered environmental protection proposals)?

Are you the same;

Offsoon, AuldAlliance, France that posts on DM?

I would sooner eat my own lukewarm vomit with a teaspoon than click on the DM site and give them ad revenue.
I will never therefore know why you think I might be that poster.

Nice deflecting response to my list of questions, though.

Trump can promise all the trade deals he likes but he won't get it passed congress. Nancy Pelosi and many more congress members have said they will not support any trade deal that affects the GFA.

I have an Irish born Mum. Do you "trust" me?

what about all the remain voters with Irish parents, grandparents, spouses? Do they 'count'?

That’s Irish ancestry. So I believe that your concern over GFA is genuine.

EU are only interested in saving their third largest donor. GFA is nothing to EU other than a way of avoiding losing their third largest donor.

@Voila212 thank you. I did not know that.

Thanks for answering Mystery .

Now, Do you trust families of victims of the violence caused in Britain, even if they have no Irish ancestry? If they don't want a border which could lead to violence, does their voice count?

Or soldiers who were stationed in NI and have PTSD based on what they were ordered to do to innocent people there? Are they allowed say the GFA should be protected above all else? Or only if they're eligible for an Irish passport?

Most Europeans can look on and see the damage that Brexit will cause to the peace and economy in the island of Ireland

Every EU member signed Article 50 that allows any member to leave EU. No caveats whatsoever about deals, GFA.

@RuggerHug

UK mainland had no say in GFA. Votes/referendum were only on the island of Ireland even though there were victims on UK mainland.

Too late now, but maybe UK mainland would have more support for the GFA had they had a say?

Nancy Pelosi and many more congress members have said they will not support any trade deal that affects the GFA

A FTA between UK and US is dangerous for the island of Ireland. An open border (which as per Pelosi is conditional to FTA) enables US to export all sorts of food products that EU has so far banned directly to NI. If border is open it is easy to get such goods into Ireland and then anywhere in EU.

Yes they did but the facts remain that the only 2 countries in the EU, Ireland and the UK signed the GFA. The fact remains these 2 countries are responsible for it and how their actions affect the treaty. It should have been brought up but obviously Ireland and the EU were naive to believe that the UK would continue to maintain its responsibility to the peace treaty it signed.

What are wittering on about now? Of course the UK mainland in the form of its democratically elected PM and government had a say in GFA.
We don't have direct democracy in this country. Thank Fuck.

A FTA between UK and US is dangerous for the island of Ireland. An open border (which as per Pelosi is conditional to FTA) enables US to export all sorts of food products that EU has so far banned directly to NI. If border is open it is easy to get such goods into Ireland and then anywhere in EU.
Hence the reason the backstop for NI is important.

If you have faux concerns about the EU market, the obvious way to protect it is by keeping NI in the customs union.

I am old enough to remember before GFA agreement
My dad was a solider in NI then again working in London his office was in area that was blown up Luckily phone call warning

He and I was so relieved that GFA came in and am glad he not alive to see it threatened

And before anyone throws the NI/protestant thing just to point 9uy mum family roots are Catholic from southern Ireland (took few years for everyone get over it)

Of course the UK mainland in the form of its democratically elected PM and government had a say in GFA

Tony Blair became UK prime minister in 1997 with 43% of the vote.

Means nothing. That's how our sovereign system works. The one other people (not you because you don't live here) voted to protect.
If you are arguing that a government only has legitimacy in the UK if it gets more than 50% if the popular vote, what about the current shower?

Ginger many soldiers were deeply affected by the war in NI. A lot of them were only boys of 18 or 19, what they saw must have scared them. It was a horrific time and the fact that the importance of the GFA is now been dismissed is a disgrace to all those who endured and suffered that time.

Scared should read scarred

Wrong Mystery.

All the main UK political parties (Labour, Conservative, and Liberal Democrat) supported the Yes campaign.

So, something that brought peace was supported by British government, but not put to a public vote.

Something that rips up that peace was voted for by the public in the UK, but government and people in the areas that will be worst affected got no say in, is ok with you? Have I got that right?