Ireland and your vote.

[RuggerHug]

I am genuinely interested in all opinions here and I really hope that comes across. I don't want to start arguments or stir up hatred or insults. I've been on these boards for awhile and I know I've probably been quite ranty at times. I really want to not be here, so I'd like to ask everyone who voted, leave or remain, the following and I'd really appreciate your answers/thoughts.

Did ROI and NI play a part in your decision to vote whatever way?

Did the effect of a vote either way to NI and ROI occur at all, if so how?

Since the result, did anyone have a change of heart/become more sure of their vote based on what came out regarding ROI and NI afterwards?

Have you any thoughts on how we've been during it all/how our media portrays activities in the UK(if you're aware of what is said/shown here).

Hopefully this won't come across as trying to start a fight but, in all of this, did you care about us and the fallout or did you consider it not the UKs/anyone elses problem?

For disclosure, I'm Irish, in ROI, spent a lot of time at the border/in NI before the GFA, not as much after. Anyone I know in the UK that had a vote voted remain, I know 1 Leave voter(who lives in ROI).

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

The situation on the island of Arran wasn’t a factor in my vote - I voted remain. To be honest, it wasn’t until I saw the referendum results come in that I realised the vote would be to leave. That shocked, horrified and angered me.

I’m in my 50s and have always lived in the West of Scotland. Yes, once the reality of a leave vote sank in, I started to realise how it would affect Ireland.

Not Arran, ffs. Ireland!

I noted remain and was very aware of the border issue and GFA
I have both Scottish and Irish friends and family who voted leave because they believe it will cause the break up of the UK and a United Ireland /Independent Scotland
It's a shit show that should never have been started

I never believed it would be a problem because we were not informed by the EU that they would want to negotiate a withdrawal agreement before negotiating the trade agreement. So although I did look into it I didn't believe it would be a problem as there would be no border checks and that there would be remote ways of dealing with tariffs.
Had the EU not insisted on dealing with the WA only first and TM too weak agreeing to it we would not be in this position as a 'back stop' would never have been needed.

Yes, it was one of my reasons for voting remain, though certainly not the only one.

However, I don't think it featured much in the remain campaign. I think I was more aware than most because I lived in NI for a while as a small child and have close relatives in ROI.

Yes. One of the reasons I voted Remain.

I mean, they’ll say they did now, but I doubt they did, for the simple reason it was hardly mentioned in all the campaigning

That's what I remember too.

I had heard of the Good Friday Agreement, but never read it until the word backstop appeared during the negotiations.

Had the EU not insisted on dealing with the WA only first and TM too weak agreeing to it we would not be in this position as a 'back stop' would never have been needed

As per article 50 the withdrawal and the future relationship are meant to be agreed in tandem. Even the EU guidelines published in February 2016 made that comment. However, the guidelines changed in January 2017. Why that happened is not clear, but some think that T May's struct red lines were the reason.

"I had heard of the Good Friday Agreement, but never read it until the word backstop appeared during the negotiations."
And yet you talk like you are a specialist on the subject 😂😂😂😂

Yep. Read about it on here and I have Irish relatives in the RoI and taked about it with them. I voted Remain, needless to say.

I did look into it I didn't believe it would be a problem as there would be no border checks and that there would be remote ways of dealing with tariffs.

There are no two countries in the world where being in different customs regimes does not mean a border. If there is a hard border, what does that mean for the people of Northern Ireland? The peace is still fragile. We cannot and must not go back to this:

"Every day of my childhood, and I do mean every day, from the age of about nine until I left at 18, I expected to die ...I thought about death every day. Getting on the bus, it’s going to blow up. Walking past Unity Flats, is a sniper going to take me out?

“In the house, I couldn’t sit with my back to the front window, because every time a car would pass, the blood would drain from me.”

www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/children-of-the-troubles-they-took-a-child-off-the-road-put-a-hood-over-his-head-and-killed-him-1.4037704?mode=amp

I'm from ROI and have lived in NI for more than ten years, so yes obviously they were both at the forefront of my mind. I could never vote for anything that would risk the peace process or damage the Irish economy. And it was immediately obvious to me that both of those things would happen.

However, like most Irish people, I have a deep abiding belief in the EU and so even if we had gone to the polls with a plan in place to ensure an open border I still would've voted Remain without a second thought.

Yes. I work in a Catholic school in London. Unsurprisingly, we have a lot of Irish staff. It was a major discussion point in the lead up to the referendum.
I remember a particularly heated staff room argument between some of the Irish staff when one of them said she was voting leave and was confident that the border wouldn’t be a problem.

However, like most Irish people, I have a deep abiding belief in the EU

Didn’t Ireland vote to leave the EU a few years back but were made to vote again?

I vaguely remember some very serious issues Ireland had with the EU ? ?

No,Ireland did not vote to leave the EU, it’s arguably the most pro EU member state.

What happened a few years ago then?
I defo remember some disquiet.

Ireland didn't vote to leave the EU. You are embarrassing yourself.
Ireland voted against the Lisbon Treaty until changes were made to the Treaty . These were acceptable to Ireland in a second referendum.
Ireland does referenda properly because they are a key mechanism in the Irish constitution.
For example, the Irish voted to change its own constitution so that it was compatible with GFA.
They are the grown ups in this.

The Irish voted in a referendum to allow equal marriage. Which required a change to its constitution.
Could you imagine the childish bollocks a referendum campaign in this country would have been.

Ireland voted against the Lisbon Treaty

Ah yes, until they were made to vote again.

That’s it.

I also remember Ireland having severe economic problems & almost going bust - just like Greece & Italy. ( whilst under the watchful eye of the EU )

Maybe I know more about Ireland than I thought!

No, they weren't "made to vote again ". Changes were made to the Lisbon Treaty that were acceptable to the Irish electorate. There had to be a second vote because that's how the Irish constitution works.

The Irish government negotiated changes to the Lisbon treaty and secured guarantees that protected other aspects of the Irish constitution. Their people then voted to accept the amended version of the treaty. They weren’t “made to vote again” on the same thing, they had a government that was able to negotiate changes and a constitution that meant the people got to decide whether the changes were acceptable to them or not. You make it sound like a hostage situation rather than a functioning democracy.

dirtyrottenscoundrel with respect you know little about Ireland. Ireland held a referendum on the Lisbon treaty because it would've required a change to the Constitution. There were concerns that the treaty as it stood would risk our neutrality, so changes were made, Ireland voted again and approved the treaty.

Yes, there were tough times due to austerity and bail out, but the problems originated in the Irish banking system, not the EU. Interestingly, the UK also provided a loan to Ireland at the time. Ireland later tried to repay early but the UK refused as it wanted the interest.

Ireland has one of the highest approval ratings for the EU in the whole union, and Brexit is only increasing it.

I suppose it depends who you talk to as to their take on it.

I didn't consider Ireland because I didn't consider it that big a deal. I put my remain vote in, and as that's what everybody else I knew seemed to be doing I think I just assumed it would never come to anything. I think I was in a remain "bubble" socially and on Facebook etc. So I just never fully considered that we might (as a country) vote leave.