Ireland and your vote.

[RuggerHug]

I am genuinely interested in all opinions here and I really hope that comes across. I don't want to start arguments or stir up hatred or insults. I've been on these boards for awhile and I know I've probably been quite ranty at times. I really want to not be here, so I'd like to ask everyone who voted, leave or remain, the following and I'd really appreciate your answers/thoughts.

Did ROI and NI play a part in your decision to vote whatever way?

Did the effect of a vote either way to NI and ROI occur at all, if so how?

Since the result, did anyone have a change of heart/become more sure of their vote based on what came out regarding ROI and NI afterwards?

Have you any thoughts on how we've been during it all/how our media portrays activities in the UK(if you're aware of what is said/shown here).

Hopefully this won't come across as trying to start a fight but, in all of this, did you care about us and the fallout or did you consider it not the UKs/anyone elses problem?

For disclosure, I'm Irish, in ROI, spent a lot of time at the border/in NI before the GFA, not as much after. Anyone I know in the UK that had a vote voted remain, I know 1 Leave voter(who lives in ROI).

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

As long as your happy to ignore an international peace treaty, it will stay at an impasse

Why does one particular interpretation (hard brexit) of a narrowly won vote take priority over an already standing, very successful, internationally recognised peace treaty that was 20 years in the making?

Why was this problem not tabled and worked out long before the vote happened?

Why do the people of NI (and ROI) have to suffer because Brexit was so ill thought through by the Brits?

A soft Brexit poses no problems for the GFA for example. What about that?

Crap MPs having little knowledge or interest in the opinions of the electorate.

Why was this problem not tabled and worked out long before the vote happened

Remain campaign said nothing about NI or the GFA. Cameron thought it would be a runaway victory for remain.

Bollocks.

Remain campaign said nothing about NI or the GFA. Cameron thought it would be a runaway victory for remain.

For once I agree with what’s on your fact sheet.

However, when leave won, figuring out how that could be accommodated within the existing confines of the GFA should have been a top priority for May. And in fairness the WA achieved that.

Shame on the brexiteers who refused to engage with the GFA and voted down the WA without coming up with any better suggestions.

Sweet Jesus Mystery, have you started at the start of your script again? You keep asking and quoting the same lines, even after other posters have answered. Do you get a bonus for specific sentences or words?

John Major and Tony Blair both gave speeches and commentary about how Brexit would produce a hard border in Ireland.

Boris Johnson claimed it would be like the congestion charge. Nigel Dodds lapped it up and said it was outrageous to claim they'd be a hard border.

Depends on who you listened to.

Remain campaign said nothing about NI or the GFA.

Nah that's bollocks too. They're just making shit up as usual. This quote is taken from an article that appeared in early June 2016:

Tony Blair and Sir John Major have said that if Britain left the EU, border control would be introduced between Northern Irelandd^ and the Republic and the union with Scotland would be threatened.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/09/tony-blair-and-john-major-brexit-would-close-irish-border

Lots of machines go on loop when the batteries are dying/there's an error in service. Don't mind the bots.

Shame on the brexiteers who refused to engage with the GFA and voted down the WA without coming up with any better suggestions

Check the results of the three votes for the WA. LibDems and SNP votes against the WA unanimously every time. The greatest number of labour votes for the WA was 5 in the third vote.

Even Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg voted for the WA third time around. So was the Brexit supporters who sabotaged the WA, or was it the MPs of those parties, who in Labours case were baying for a general election, and LibDems who want to tear up the referendum result?

This is from Cameron in a speech reported by the BBC in February 2016:

^Mr Cameron said remaining in the EU was particularly important for Northern Ireland's agriculture sector
"It's for the people who want us to leave who need to answer these questions," he said.
"Are they going to put in place harder border arrangements between Northern Ireland and the Republic? What would queues be like, how long would it take people to get across the border? Is that what they're contemplating?"^

And this is from the New Statesman in April 2016:

Both of Northern Ireland’s nationalist parties, the SDLP and Sinn Fein, are supporting the Remain campaign largely to protect links to the Republic of Ireland. However, the unionist parties, which identify as solidly British and reject any unification with the rest of Ireland, are split on whether a Brexit would weaken or strengthen their ties to the ‘mainland’ UK. The Democratic Unionists (DUP) are backing Brexit, the only main Northern Irish party to do so. They argue that a border could be easily erected between Northern Ireland and the Republic and would welcome such a move. However, the Ulster Unionists (UUP), who are more moderate, have cautioned that it might be more likely that Britain would find a border stretching miles along Irish countryside and farmland, that would be impractical and essentially leave Northern Ireland sealed off from the rest of the UK.

The BBC reported this in in 9 June 2016.

Major and Blair say an EU exit could split the UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36486016

The Reality Check within the BBC article makes it explicit that border checks would depend on the type of agreements the UK negotiates - and that was published on 7 June 2016.

Other MSM reports of their visit warning of dangers report them as being far more outspoken: one headline saying Tony Blair and John Major: Brexit would close Irish border^^ - can't get clearer than that
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/09/tony-blair-and-john-major-brexit-would-close-irish-border

So it want that it wasn't pointed out , it was just that a) people didn't want to hear/weren't interested and b) Leave politicians like Theresa Villiers who should and probably did know better deliberately minimised and poo-pooed the risk

Even Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg voted for the WA third time around. So was the Brexit supporters who sabotaged the WA

The rest of the ERG didn’t.

So yes, they sabotaged their parties brexit solution. The Tory party, supposedly in control of the house, tasked with delivering brexit. They sabotaged their leader and fucked over the ppl of NI.

Maybe update your sheet with that.

The deflection of the blame to others is ridiculous and tedious. How many times have you posted that now. You must get a bonus for trotting that out.

Nah that's bollocks too. They're just making shit up as usual. This quote is taken from an article that appeared in early June 2016

Suggest you look at the leaflet sent to every household in the UK by UK government. It says nothing about NI or the GFA.

Also look on the EU referendum section of www.gov.uk. It says nothing either.

The problem is that the leave campaign essentially campaigned on a Norway+ Brexit and then pulled the rug.

Their promises (Johnson, Villiers et al) about Northern Ireland would look pretty embarrassing now, if these criminals were capable of embarrassment.

So yes, they sabotaged their parties brexit solution. The Tory party, supposedly in control of the house, tasked with delivering brexit. They sabotaged their leader and fucked over the ppl of NI

Labour manifest of 2017 on page 24 states they will support the result of the 2016 referendum. So why did a maximum of 5 labour MPs only vote for the WA? Answer is that Labour thought by scuppering Brexit they would be able to force a General Election still thinking they had 40% of voter support.

Now that labour are third in the polls they don't want a General Election. Why is that? Answer because they know they will lose.

So the WA was sabotaged by Labour thinking they could force and win a General Election.

-Suggest you look at the leaflet sent to every household in the UK by UK government. It says nothing about NI or the GFA.-

I no longer have it, but as far as I remember it said that the government believes that remaining in the EU is our best option and then listed the advantages.

I remember talking to my boyfriend and he said he will vote remain, but would prefer leave as he doesn't like the government. I hope he voted remain in the end and if he didn't I'd rather not know as it would make me very upset.

Mr Cameron said remaining in the EU was particularly important for Northern Ireland's agriculture sector
"It's for the people who want us to leave who need to answer these questions," he said.
"Are they going to put in place harder border arrangements between Northern Ireland and the Republic? What would queues be like, how long would it take people to get across the border? Is that what they're contemplating?"

If Cameron considered that to be an important point, why was is not included in the leaflet sent to every household at a cost to the Taxpayer of £9 million?

Why was it not on the www.gov.uk website?

I voted to leave and unfortunately and naively it did not cross my mind there was any
Issue regarding NI. I don't recall it being brought up in tv debates. If there had been much said about it, I would have voted differently

Correct they didn't care and most still don't care what happens to NI as long as the Brexit unicorn is delivered.

I fully agree with this.

But we are stuck. Stop Brexit due to the border and this will just fuel anti-Irish sentiment. Go ahead and risk peace.

If there had been much said about it, I would have voted differently

I think there are a lot of people who might have felt differently if the potential impact on Northern Ireland had been given a higher profile.

It's not true to say that it was not discussed, but it probably is the case that that coverage of the impact on Ireland was mainly (although not exclusively) directed at a Northern Irish audience.

I no longer have it, but as far as I remember it said that the government believes that remaining in the EU is our best option and then listed the advantages

Link is:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525022/20160523_Leaflet_EASY_READ_FINAL_VERSION.pdf

It has a section for disadvantages of UK leaving the EU. NI and GFA are not listed. Nor are they in any other section of the leaflet.

This, on the other hand, is what Mr Johnson said in February 2016:

He told the BBC a Brexit would leave arrangements on the Irish border "absolutely unchanged".

Mystery I'll bite, the fact it wasn't mentioned enough before the referendum is a disgrace. The UK government and media have a lot to answer for. It was brought up by Ireland, NI and some in England but their fears were ignored or dismissed. The fact remains it's in the media now, it is being spoken about how by officials and government members. So because the UK ignored the GFA before the referendum doesn't mean they are allowed to ignore it now. Surely your post Mystery proves that the British people were not given all the facts to make a conscious decision. Shouldn't cause a doubt to the results of the referendum?