Ireland and your vote.

[RuggerHug]

I am genuinely interested in all opinions here and I really hope that comes across. I don't want to start arguments or stir up hatred or insults. I've been on these boards for awhile and I know I've probably been quite ranty at times. I really want to not be here, so I'd like to ask everyone who voted, leave or remain, the following and I'd really appreciate your answers/thoughts.

Did ROI and NI play a part in your decision to vote whatever way?

Did the effect of a vote either way to NI and ROI occur at all, if so how?

Since the result, did anyone have a change of heart/become more sure of their vote based on what came out regarding ROI and NI afterwards?

Have you any thoughts on how we've been during it all/how our media portrays activities in the UK(if you're aware of what is said/shown here).

Hopefully this won't come across as trying to start a fight but, in all of this, did you care about us and the fallout or did you consider it not the UKs/anyone elses problem?

For disclosure, I'm Irish, in ROI, spent a lot of time at the border/in NI before the GFA, not as much after. Anyone I know in the UK that had a vote voted remain, I know 1 Leave voter(who lives in ROI).

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

As I said terrorists are holding guns to everyone's heads.

Yes, but as long as they only use them on us, here in N Ireland, people are fine with that.

NI and Ireland should thrash out some sort of agreement themselves.

Excellent idea. N Ireland voted remain, so remain it is. No border issues then.

Fat needs to turn his ire on the Brexit terrorists threatening civil war if Brexit doesn't happen on 31/10.

But he won't because he's a hypocrite.

Excellent idea. N Ireland voted remain, so remain it is. No border issues then
Well, discuss among yourselves. But that won't happen, maybe in the next generation.

What about agree a border but U.K. pays Ireland and NI compensation for loss of economic productivity annually for next, day , 10 years.

No fat it's an British border in Ireland that the GFA removed but Brexit wants to return

Not quite correct. UK has said they will not install a border in the event of a no deal departure from the EU as WTO does not require such a border. Ireland's conundrum is the EU border regulations vs the GFA.

So what are the solutions?

Germany wants NI to remain in EU Customs zone. That solves GFA easily, but may be seen by Scotland as preferential treatment as they voted by an even larger majority than NI to remain in the EU.

So how to solve Scotland's objection? My suggestion is to allow them to have a further independence referendum. If they choose to leave UK, then they are free to apply to the EU for membership.

Alternatively UK leaves the EU on a EEA arrangement. That would keep UK reasonably aligned with EU that might be enough for both NI and Scotland to accept?

So in the immediate term most voters would be getting a chunk of what they wanted.

Obstacle is Parliament has many MPs who are looking out for their parties and personal ambitions rather than UK.

fatsheda I really urge you to educate yourself about the GFA.

It is an amazing treaty. What it managed to do was solve centuries old problems with identity in Northern Ireland, problems cause by British plantation in the 16th century and British partition of the island.

Your country had a huge role in creating the mess in NI.

The GFA was a sleight of hand that helped heal centuries old wounds. For the first time, both nationalists and unionist were able to celebrate their historical identities.

NI was moving on. Within the structure of the GFA, which enabled this.

Undermining it for Brexit will be yet another betrayal of NI by the British.

I don’t condone nationalist violence. But I understand why it’s used. It’s the only thing that ever made the Brits listen to the nationalist cause.

Oh back on shift mystery

Wonder what time zone it is for you?

What about agree a border but U.K. pays Ireland and NI compensation for loss of economic productivity annually for next, day , 10 years

Issues of national identity tend to go far beyond money as I’m sure you know.

“As I said terrorists are holding guns to everyone's heads”

Yes, far right extremists in England are threatening violence and our government is backing them up. It is shocking

Fatshedra It was more about a border having to be installed and what that brings, how it affects daily life and the freedoms it takes from everyone. The IRA as far as I know, haven't said they'll do anything. Or the UVF. Or UDA. The issue we're discussing is how people didn't consider the GFA before voting and what they think now. Apologies if that wasn't clear. Would you mind answering the questions in the first post if you have a chance?

It’s really interesting how there is all this harking back to UK history wrt two world wars etc, but conveniently forgetting that the GFA was required to bring a situation that was caused by the British to some sort of resolution. Other aspects of history beyond the world wars are important

It's painfully clear that many people here have no clue about their history beyond the world wars. I find myself regularly having to explain the NI border issue to seemingly intelligent, professional people who just can't see what the big deal is and why the border in NI is not like France/ Switzerland or USA/ Canada

Well, discuss among yourselves. But that won't happen, maybe in the next generation.

Eh? I'm not talking about reunification, I'm talking about the referendum we've already had, where NI as a whole voted remain.

They don’t know anything about the world wars either though, beyond Churchillian sound bites.

Plucky Britain saving the world isn’t in any way an accurate narrative. The US and particularly Russia did much and more to defeat the Nazis.

I don’t usually post, but you make a good point Rugger that none of the organisations you mentioned have said there will be a return to violence if Brexit doesn’t go the way they want it to, which is a good sign. If anything, a return to violence is being presumed by people who don’t live here.
Apologies for derailing your thread.

Did ROI and NI play a part in your decision to vote whatever way?didnt think of it. as far as I know it wasn't mentioned by politicians. I don't remember it in any papers. I,like everyone else ,assumed we would vote to stay in the Eu.

Did the effect of a vote either way to NI and ROI occur at all, if so how?Not at all

Since the result, did anyone have a change of heart/become more sure of their vote based on what came out regarding ROI and NI afterwards? No haven't changed my leave stance, we need to look long term eg 20 years no 2years. Many right wing parties gaining a hold in European elections, we need to plan for horrendous effects of global warming ie in 20 years time, we need to change lifestyles eg car use, easier to do stuff when not tied to the EU behemoth

Have you any thoughts on how we've been during it all/how our media portrays activities in the UK(if you're aware of what is said/shown here).

Hopefully this won't come across as trying to start a fight but, in all of this, did you care about us and the fallout or did you consider it not the UKs/anyone elses problem?

If anything, a return to violence is being presumed by people who don’t live here.

That’s not accurate. The ordinary people of NI are very worried about a return.

It’s not the style of these terrorist organisations to announce their intentions.

Also the stuff in Derry shows what’s bubbling under the surface.

I read this from an article in the Belfast telegraph. It really shows the absurdity of Boris agreement
' So the European Union rejects the idea of a non-existent Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly determining the contours of the EU single market, covering 500 million people? Just fancy that.

The Boris Johnson-DUP offering to the EU was always about the optics, not the substance. It was a threadbare attempt to shift the blame for a no-deal Brexit upon the EU, a 'We've moved, now it's the EU's turn' gambit.'

Boris never had any intention of trying to sort this.

It’s all about blame dodging and game playing.

Totally fucking despicable.

Even if you’re right Laurie a return to violence by either side will be seen as breaking the GFA so where does that leave us?
What stuff is bubbling under the surface in Derry?

Did you miss the murder of Lyra McKee earlier in the year?

A hard border trashes the GFA. I’m not sure what point you’re making. Yes a return to violence will trash it also, but what might prompt that?

We’re playing with fire. Few seem to realise this or care.

Even if you’re right Laurie a return to violence by either side will be seen as breaking the GFA so where does that leave us?

But it's the governments who signed up to the GFA, not the terrorists. The terms they agreed were enough to get most terrorists to stop their violence but if terrorists strike it doesn't mean that the governments have broken the GFA.

What stuff is bubbling under the surface in Derry? There have already been a few bombs and attempted murders and one actual murder. Not murdered due to Brexit, but the bubbling tension certainly won't have helped.

Boris Johnson is only interested in winning a GE and getting another 5 years in government. This is all part of the plan to blame the ungrateful Irish and the nasty EU - saying he tried his best to get a deal but they rejected it. The leavers stance is just galvanised by all the anti EU, anti establishment thwarting the democratic will of the people rhetoric. The polls indicate that his plan is working and he is on course to win.

Winning a GE is all that matters everything else is a sideshow.

i doubt leave voters even know NI is part of UK in 2016 referendum.

@zoemelb Correct they didn't care and most still don't care what happens to NI as long as the Brexit unicorn is delivered. Anyone thinking that this will change is deluded.

Well you're happy to ignore a democratic vote then. It's an impasse.