Ireland and your vote.

[RuggerHug]

I am genuinely interested in all opinions here and I really hope that comes across. I don't want to start arguments or stir up hatred or insults. I've been on these boards for awhile and I know I've probably been quite ranty at times. I really want to not be here, so I'd like to ask everyone who voted, leave or remain, the following and I'd really appreciate your answers/thoughts.

Did ROI and NI play a part in your decision to vote whatever way?

Did the effect of a vote either way to NI and ROI occur at all, if so how?

Since the result, did anyone have a change of heart/become more sure of their vote based on what came out regarding ROI and NI afterwards?

Have you any thoughts on how we've been during it all/how our media portrays activities in the UK(if you're aware of what is said/shown here).

Hopefully this won't come across as trying to start a fight but, in all of this, did you care about us and the fallout or did you consider it not the UKs/anyone elses problem?

For disclosure, I'm Irish, in ROI, spent a lot of time at the border/in NI before the GFA, not as much after. Anyone I know in the UK that had a vote voted remain, I know 1 Leave voter(who lives in ROI).

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

I couldn't vote in the referendum, but was keenly aware of the issues surrounding the UK border in Ireland and the risks to the GFA and was horrified at how that was brushed aside by many.

I'm 45.

I remember the Brighton bombings, even though I grew up hundreds of miles away in Edinburgh.

I remember that when the Queen came to Holyrood, they'd seal all the bins along the route she was to travel.

I remember bomb scares at school when I was about 7, one during PE, and as we shivered outside in our Aertex shirts and gym knickers we immediately thought it might be the IRA. We couldn't work out why they'd be targeting a girl's primary school but it didn't strike us as impossible, as the bombings seemed random.

I read novels by Joan Lingard when I was a teenager.

I remember the Warrington bombings.
The Guildford Four.
Hunger strikes.
They are global, not detailed, childhood memories, but clear nonetheless.

I remember travelling through Derry in about 1989/1990 on my way to Donegal and being horrified at the steel blinds everywhere and the extent to which it resembled a war zone.

I am early 30s but I saw the news and my parents talked about what was going on (partly because it made me anxious about dad travelling to London sometimes for work). Also my mum’s family is Catholic (from ROI originally but several generations back) but we were anglican so we as children were aware of the differences in practice/belief from a young age.

I wonder if @AthollPlace realises that it has been hard work and compromise to get us to a situation where violence and murder in NI isn't a daily news item.
And No Deal rips that up.

Atholl, if you based your vote on current affairs then what do you now think about how you and your DC's lives will be affected?
I don’t know much about current affairs in NI. I tend to think of it as a different country. It’s one of those things that are “in the news” and have no direct effect on my daily life. The same as the other issues you mentioned - Rohingya, Syria, Greta Thunberg - it’s all just television, it doesn’t affect my daily life. I have enough problems with my health, cooking and cleaning, looking after DC, working and making ends meet - I don’t have time to think much beyond that.

"I don’t know much about current affairs in NI. I tend to think of it as a different country"
And do you think that everyone is just making it up when they say insufficient steps to protect GFA are the reason Johnson's plan doesn't work.
And do you think it's all a con when we explain that Theresa May's withdrawal agreement worked in respect of GFA.
And , Jesus Christ, it's not a different country.
And, don't you think any of us have kids and work /money pressure?

I think Atholl’s views are honest and representative of lots of ppl in GB to be honest. It’s useful to see it written down.

In the end, it’s too much to ask ordinary people to take into account political realities of Ni if the politicians themselves couldn’t be arsed to do that.

And I come back to the same conclusion I always come back to. Most of this anger should he directed at David Cameron.

And do you think that everyone is just making it up when they say insufficient steps to protect GFA are the reason Johnson's plan doesn't work
It’s out of my hands and I have no say in it, so I don’t particularly take an interest in what his plan is or whether it works. When I have five minutes to sit down I browse the internet or watch Netflix. I don’t sit and think about stuff happening hundreds or thousands of miles away that I can’t do anything about. I just answered the OP’s question about whether I thought about NI when I voted: No, I didn’t.

Well...the IRA learnt by the 1990s that the way to get the UK to listen to them was to direct their bombing campaign towards England. So a head in the sand 'NI is a far away place, it doesn't affect me' attitude seems rather short sighted.

No it didn't affect my vote. I'm a Londoner, I passionately would like to stay in the EU but was complacent at the time and thought we would never leave.

I didn't hear NI mentioned at all during the discourse at the time and therefore didn't consider it. I'm also a bit younger and don't really remember the events surrounding the GFA.

That said, my experience was that the Leave campaign was much louder, bolder and coherent in making their arguments so it's possible it was mentioned but that I didn't pick up on it.

Now that I'm aware of the impact Brexit is having on NI I'm aghast and feel deeply for the people living there.

good politics degree, love of history, remember the terrorism/bombings, listened to the ref debates...

it did not figure at all. Not at all. i was completely, blissfully unaware of those implications...

I also think Athols comments are very honest too and exactly what the problem is. Most people in the UK don't care about NI and I don't think it's out of badness. The UK has gone through years of cuts which has left many people in poverty. The government caused these cuts and ignored the consequences. New papers and certain groups blamed the EU. People were told that once we are out of the EU, we will have all that money to spend on the uk. Any concerns for NI border where dismissed by the government themselves. Even now NI problems are classed as project fear and a way to keep the UK in the EU.

What I can't understand, is that a lot of leavers want no deal, any fears are dismissed, no deal and they keep the money, no deal is better then Mays deal, Boris is backing a no deal....yet...... Every pro leave person and news site keep saying 'No deal will be the EU's fault', why the blame game if no deal is what they wanted all along.

"I didn't think about it" " it's out of my hands " are not really good enough when your vote as one of the 52% is being used by shifty feckers to justify No Deal.

oh i didnt think about the GFA back then but of course i voted remain. i may be stupid but im not a complete ignoramus fuck-wit.

Even now NI problems are classed as project fear and a way to keep the UK in the EU

That’s my view too. EU pretends they are GFA supporters, but they only say that because they want Brexit to be cancelled.

EU is also afraid that in the event of no deal they get the blame for telling Ireland they must install border controls in accordance with EU laws.

WTO has told both Ireland and UK they will not require hard borders. However, WTO does not have jurisdiction over EU. So all UK has to do is to let EU install a border in Ireland and then say;

Nothing to do with us. We never told Ireland to install a border. We haven’t violated GFA. Ireland has.

Can hear it coming from, in my case, thousands of miles away.

Oh back on shift I see mystery

"I didn't think about it" " it's out of my hands " are not really good enough when your vote as one of the 52% is being used by shifty feckers to justify No Deal

Firstly I didn’t say which way I voted! Secondly - at the time of the vote I thought very carefully about the information that was presented. It was all about money for the NHS and immigration issues vs economic consequences etc. Issues in NI weren’t really mentioned by either side and thus weren’t part of my decision making.

Now I have no further control over the process, whether we Remain or Leave, or what deal we end up with. So I don’t think about it a great deal because it’s out of my hands. I watch the news with interest but there’s nothing I can do about it. Issues with NI that are being discussed now are solely in the hands of politicians. They should have been raised at the time of the referendum but they weren’t. Even if the IRA started bombing my home town there’s still nothing I could do about it.

It was all about money for the NHS and immigration issues vs economic consequences etc. Issues in NI weren’t really mentioned by either side and thus weren’t part of my decision making

Imagine that represents the view of many who voted on 23 June 2016.

They should have been raised at the time of the referendum but they weren’t

The leaflet that remain campaign sent to every household in UK said nothing about NI or GFA.

Even if the IRA started bombing my home town there’s still nothing I could do about it

Correct. Don't think it would change anyone's mind either.

"Now I have no further control over the process"

Not entirely correct. You can campaign. You can write to your MP (and, indeed, other MPs) to tell them that you don't agree that the GFA should be discarded. You can call out bots other posters when they are deliberately lying obfuscating the facts by repeating whatever mantra they have been told to splatter all over the airwaves today.

I doubt you can be arsed though, you sound that type.

You can campaign. You can write to your MP (and, indeed, other MPs) to tell them that you don't agree that the GFA should be discarded

Alternatively people can make their own decisions. Vote how they choose.

In the end, it’s too much to ask ordinary people to take into account political realities of Ni if the politicians themselves couldn’t be arsed to do that.
*
And I come back to the same conclusion I always come back to. Most of this anger should he directed at David Cameron.*

I agree. David Cameron's decision to call such the referendum was all about party politics and gave zero consideration for the potential consequences for NI. Did anyone in charge actually sit down pre referendum and wargame the possible outcomes of what Leaving would mean for the country including NI? Did they understand the risks or just not care?

Having said this, those ordinary people that didn't understand NI before should have a pretty good idea by now. We've had wall to wall news about 'the dreaded NI backstop' for years now.

More bollocks from afar.

Did they understand the risks or just not care?

Neither. Cameron assumed it would be an easy remain victory.

When I open a bot factory, I’m going to give all the staff thousand of ‘the’s to make their English more convincing. You can have some for free Mystery.

I'll throw some extra "the's" as well, and all, Moonlight.
And a few dozen apostrophes to go in "you're".

Yes. I was at University in the late nineties with a girl from Belfast.

A mutual friend went over to visit her in the holidays, described in vivid detail what it was like there, having bag searched to go into a shop, armed police/soldiers on the streets, how everyone she met there was just sick to the core of it and how it was so obvious they just wanted an end to it and a peaceful life.

While she was doing so, the girl from Belfast just sat there, white as a sheet, head hanging forward, eyes closed, looking like she could be sick at any minute. She couldn’t say a word.

Didn’t really know her very well but my heart broke for her. I’ve never seen anyone so frozen.

I wouldn’t want anyone to have to go back to living like that, especially not after having thought it was finally over.