Ireland and your vote.

[RuggerHug]

I am genuinely interested in all opinions here and I really hope that comes across. I don't want to start arguments or stir up hatred or insults. I've been on these boards for awhile and I know I've probably been quite ranty at times. I really want to not be here, so I'd like to ask everyone who voted, leave or remain, the following and I'd really appreciate your answers/thoughts.

Did ROI and NI play a part in your decision to vote whatever way?

Did the effect of a vote either way to NI and ROI occur at all, if so how?

Since the result, did anyone have a change of heart/become more sure of their vote based on what came out regarding ROI and NI afterwards?

Have you any thoughts on how we've been during it all/how our media portrays activities in the UK(if you're aware of what is said/shown here).

Hopefully this won't come across as trying to start a fight but, in all of this, did you care about us and the fallout or did you consider it not the UKs/anyone elses problem?

For disclosure, I'm Irish, in ROI, spent a lot of time at the border/in NI before the GFA, not as much after. Anyone I know in the UK that had a vote voted remain, I know 1 Leave voter(who lives in ROI).

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

Thanks to Laurie's link to the Guardian article...I led on to the text of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 Section 10 which states (my emphases):

"Continuation of North-South co-operation and the prevention of new border arrangements

(1)In exercising any of the powers under this Act, a Minister of the Crown or devolved authority MUST —

(a) act in a way that is compatible with the terms of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, and

(b)have due regard to the joint report from the negotiators of the EU and the United Kingdom Government on progress during phase 1 of negotiations under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union.

(2)Nothing in section 8, 9 or 23(1) or (6) of this Act authorises regulations which—

(a) diminish any form of North-South cooperation provided for by the Belfast Agreement (as defined by section 98 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998), or

(b) create or facilitate border arrangements between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland after exit day which feature physical infrastructure, including border posts, or checks and controls, that did not exist before exit day and are not in accordance with an agreement between the United Kingdom and the EU."

@DuchessDumbarton , I'm sorry it was a ghastly turn of phrase. But it strikes me that some of the younger posters, particularly if they didn't live in NW England or London and Birmingham (where their parents would have been acutely aware of it) genuinely think it was a situation confined to "those people over there".
You never saw public litter bins in places like railway stations when I was growing up. It was a leap of faith to reinstall them. The dreadful events in Warrington showed what happened with that leap of faith.

My impression (perhaps wrong?) is that with one or two exceptions the Mumsnet hardcore leavers are older women.

And if they are my age (54) or older surely they remember mainland bombing campaigns?

"DUP have stated that approach also goes against the GFA."
Who gives a fuck what the DUP thinks, apart from people who use DUP as a public convenience.
If the DUP spoke for the majority in NI on Brexit, then NI would have voted Leave. It didn't. It voted Remain. Which means people from both traditions voted Remain.

NI issue isn't stopping Brexit. Stupid refusal to let NI stay in the EU customs union is stopping Brexit.
Seriously, do Brexiteers care soooo much that they want NI outside the EU customs union for shits and giggles. And No Deal. Because if they conceded this point and allowed NI to stay in the EU customs union, we could leave on 31 October.

@duchess

That comes from:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/16/section/10

UK can't dictate to EU that it has to change its border laws to suit GFA.

I'm sure they remember bombings on the mainland. But I doubt they live in NW England, Birmingham or London, which felt it more directly and keenly.

DUP have stated that approach also goes against the GFA

The DUP didn't want the GFA in 1998, its funny how they want it when it suits them.

NI issue isn't stopping Brexit. Stupid refusal to let NI stay in the EU customs union is stopping Brexit

Scotland won't accept NI receiving preferential treatment. As per BBC Merkel has apparently stated that NI remains in EU customs. So Germany is now alienating Scotland.

That's ok belliini - I understand why it is used.
I can remember interviewing for a job and having someone comment that they would sort such-and-such an issue out, once I came "over to the mainland".
As a 20-something, I genuinely thought they expected me to travel to France! or something. I had to ask what he meant.

The DUP didn't want the GFA in 1998, its funny how they want it when it suits them

EU are not party to the GFA, but they are hoping GFA cancels Brexit.

More distraction bullshit pretending that people think GFA stops Brexit. It doesn't. And your increasingly pathetic attempts to argue that's what people are saying are nauseating.

Also bellini (and it feels as if I am picking on you...but that is not my intention)
In Ireland, we really have to care what the DUP thinks.

Any group that is as intransigent as they have been, have to be operating from fear.
And of course, they fear being over-run by Nationalists and Catholics (not one and the same) or the Republic. They fear being abandoned by the UK (realistic, posts here wouldn't fill you with security of your position if you are a NI Unionist).

The utter beauty of the GFA is that it did care what the extremist groups on either end of the spectrum thought. And it made provision to help those people feel as safe as possible.

The last 20years has turned down the temperature on the fear that led to violence.
Brexit has thrown a log on the fire to re-ignite fears on both sides.....hence the upsurge in threats and the fear of a resumption.

It did mine, but then I lived in Northern Ireland for 18 months and had some pretty (politically) switched on friends while there

Again, you are right about the DUP @DuchessDumbarton , but Brexiteers are treating them as the only NI voice to listen to and that they have a veto.

"But I doubt they live in NW England, Birmingham or London, which felt it more directly and keenly."

I know that a surprising (or perhaps not) number of the most vehement leavers are not UK based. Probably "mainland" has a quite different meaning for some of them.

It's also quite reasonable to assume that "mainland bombing campaign" is a term that will only be familiar to a specific audience. My adult and teenage kids are switched on politically but I'm not sure they would understand "mainland" in that context. And my oldest has a very personal link to Ireland.

You never saw public litter bins in places like railway stations when I was growing up. It was a leap of faith to reinstall them.

I grew up in N Ireland, in the 80s, and we never had our litter bins taken away. I didn't know about this. And it just makes me feel quite sad, because my assumption is that no one bothered taking our litter bins away because ultimately they didn't give a damn if someone planted a bomb in one. Because dead Irish people aren't like dead real people presumably.

I think whoever said that the DUP operate out of fear have got it absolutely spot on. The assumption is that if we ever became part of Ireland, Protestants would be treated horrifically as revenge for how Catholics were treated in the past. Even though many people will deny that Catholics were treated badly, but that's another story. People genuinely are afraid. I remember 25 years ago at school discovering that some of my friends from the more extreme religious backgrounds believed that in a united Ireland situation, we would be dragged from our homes, men women and children, put against a wall and shot, by the thousand. I was accused of being blinkered when I said that I didn't believe that would ever happen.

Stormont leaders from both sides need to get back in their seat to give both sides of NI a chance.
While Sinn Fein is out there isn't much noise for the Nationalists.
who knows they may all be seated in time to block the abortion law
Leo was accused of favouring Nationalists over Unionist there is only so much he can say now without his views on the GFA been questioned as Nationalists favouritism.
www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/if-johnson-becomes-pm-he-should-thank-varadkar-says-historian-1.3961740

Presumably said by someone who is too young to remember how NI violence readily spills onto the mainland
40. I know nothing about any violence on the mainland and don’t live in any of the areas that were mentioned as being affected. I remember relatives being stationed in NI with the army in the 1980s but tbh thought it was all history. I voted based on current issues affecting me personally, NI isn’t even on my radar.

Atholl, if you based your vote on current affairs then what do you now think about how you and your DC's lives will be affected?

If the Union breaks up, or if violence re-emerges in your country?

NI may not be on your radar (shocking, if true) . It's a bit simplistic to say so however.

Greta Thunberg is Swedish but is on my radar.
What is happening to the Rohingya people is on my radar.
The movement of troops on the Turkish/Syrian border is on my radar.

NI is part of your country. Surely, surely, you must be aware that events there do affect you and yours.

I doubt many remainers here in England ( & probably Wales ) gave the Irish issue much thought, if any at all
I mean, they’ll say they did now, but I doubt they did, for the simple reason it was hardly mentioned in all the campaigning

I wasn';t sure I had thought about it beforehand, but my mum told me I did mention it to her before the referendum so I must have heard or read something about the GFA being predicated on both countries being in the EU.

What I don't really understand is why the remain vote in NI wasn't more overwhelming, like it was in Scotland (and even more so in Gibraltar).

What I don't really understand is why the remain vote in NI wasn't more overwhelming, like it was in Scotland (and even more so in Gibraltar).

This comes down to the DUP influence and their desire to vote no to mark themselves out as more British than the British.

Of all the deluded Turkeys out there, they are undoubtedly the worst.

I know lots of nationalist NI voters who voted Leave in order to push for a border poll on a United Ireland and to speed the hope of a United Ireland up, also voters who voted leave from an idealistic socialist political viewpoint.

I'm sure they remember bombings on the mainland. But I doubt they live in NW England, Birmingham or London, which felt it more directly and keenly.

I have said similar before in regards to one of my local NE MP's. I was born and grew up near Birmingham and did go to London on occasion. It was something always at the back of my mind. We travelled regularly by train from New Street station.

He is very pro-Brexit and has been fairly non committal when asked about the border. I honestly believe he is just a little too young and too far removed in the NE to truly remember and understand those times.

There was a huge evangelical church, possibly more than one, preaching that their congregation must vote for leave because it was all foretold in the bible and God's judgement would be upon anyone who voted remain. So, in short, I know an awful lot of people who voted leave because they believe they will go to hell otherwise.