Ireland and your vote.

[RuggerHug]

I am genuinely interested in all opinions here and I really hope that comes across. I don't want to start arguments or stir up hatred or insults. I've been on these boards for awhile and I know I've probably been quite ranty at times. I really want to not be here, so I'd like to ask everyone who voted, leave or remain, the following and I'd really appreciate your answers/thoughts.

Did ROI and NI play a part in your decision to vote whatever way?

Did the effect of a vote either way to NI and ROI occur at all, if so how?

Since the result, did anyone have a change of heart/become more sure of their vote based on what came out regarding ROI and NI afterwards?

Have you any thoughts on how we've been during it all/how our media portrays activities in the UK(if you're aware of what is said/shown here).

Hopefully this won't come across as trying to start a fight but, in all of this, did you care about us and the fallout or did you consider it not the UKs/anyone elses problem?

For disclosure, I'm Irish, in ROI, spent a lot of time at the border/in NI before the GFA, not as much after. Anyone I know in the UK that had a vote voted remain, I know 1 Leave voter(who lives in ROI).

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

Mystery i hope you're copying and pasting your posts, it seems a pain to keep writing the same lines over and over. Or do they get you to memorize them, when they first employed you?
I tell you what Rugger, maybe Ireland should just 'rejoin ' the UK, after all it went swimmingly well the last time😂

Voila212 Ah sure we probably owe them. Since we're doing them a favour though, the compromise can be all public sector jobs, government and media are conducted as gaelige. I'm sure they'll pick it up quick 😂😂😂

I hate to see people engage with it....I've been caught a few times and wasted my time and become frustrated. But, I hope I'm getting better at it.

The aim is quite explicitly to shut down "dangerous" threads (and Ireland is very dangerous to the Brexit project) and to keep a certain POV at the top of the thread to put off lurkers.

I think this should be combatted by amplifying Northern Irish and Irish voices on this, which is why I have been posting the stories of the child victims of the troubles. When my copy of Children of the Troubles is delivered I have every intention of telling more of their stories every time an expat shows up to mansplain Ireland to Irish people.

Mistigri Good woman. Just so you know I think the official term is 'Tansplaining' 😉

Both like and shiver at the term Tansplaining.

@Mistigri , you are a fucking hero. Keep up the awesome and heartbreaking work.

You're dead right Mistigirl, I honestly don't know what's worse, the bots that right this spiel or the leavers who regurgitate it. It's a very dangerous game though, with horrific consequences.

write!!!not right

bellinisurge if you can't laugh and all that.

Remember these threads are read by many more people than post on them. If they degenerate into bickering, lurkers stop reading. Which is the aim - it explains the cryptic but at the same time confrontational posts. The intention is disruptive.

That's why you rarely get attempts to disrupt the westministers threads - people don't react (partly because the threads move so fast there is always something else to talk about).

Ah, I see Misti.
I had noticed that on the Westministers threads.

I should add that I don't think ignoring is the answer either - because often that ends the thread.

On the Ireland threads I think it's really, really important to keep talking about the very real potential consequences. This thread has been great (but also v dangerous, for Brexit campaigners) because of the posts from northern Irish people who understand what those consequences could be. It's a real shame that those voices get drowned out. Quote the fuck out of them if you get the opportunity, instead of quoting paid partisans.

Quite.
Don't get drawn in, however tempting; flag up posts that need to be taken down; carry on exchanging with actual posters regardless of the red herrings.
Not that I always manage to follow my own advice.

One thing I have noticed is that these posters rarely answer any actual questions, preferring to churn out their own agenda irrespective of what other people are actually discussing. You can ask the same question three or four times - if it doesn't fit the agenda, you won't get a reply.

There are also a lot of sockpuppets.
The poster who popped up for a few days and then vanished, with several names made up of islands/archipelagos/towns around the Indian Ocean and a date, was one example.
The recurrent, identical grammar mistakes in various posts across the Brexit threads also suggest one person with multiple addresses.
Knowing this makes it easier to ignore, IMO.

Mistigri I know you've ordered the book but I can't remember if you said up thread, sorry, did you see the Irish Times article at the weekend about it?

www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/children-of-the-troubles-they-took-a-child-off-the-road-put-a-hood-over-his-head-and-killed-him-1.4037704?mode=amp

If you haven't.

Great article from Fintan O’Toole on the border

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/08/brexit-irish-border-technology?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

X-posted with Mistigri...so my "Quite" didn't make sense.
I think we feel compelled to answer red herrings, to bring rationality to digressive wanderings and point out inaccuracies. But sometimes ignoring them is perhaps the best option, so attention can focus on the testimonies of those best placed to offer them and lurkers can read those.

Hi Rugger, yes, I saw it. I've quoted most of it on this and the Brexit arms already (some of it twice).

186 dead children. A lot of stories to tell

Brexit is a British problem. The onus is on Britain to get it however they want. They just can't break a peace treaty they signed in the process

EU regulations require border control between EU and non EU countries. Once UK has left EU it is no longer bound by EU border regulations. So even if there is a deal made, it will not change fact that an EU country is adjacent to a non EU country and Ireland must comply with EU customs regulations.

WTO have said they will not require either Ireland or UK to install a hard border. However, EU does not have jurisdiction over EU.

Hence Johnson’s suggestion to perform limited checks away from the border. Seems to solve both EU and GFA requirements? Hopefully EU gets on board.

No I didn’t think about Ireland. I didn’t care and I still don’t. My Brexit vote was based solely on how I thought my life and my DC’s lives would be impacted.

I had no clue about Northern Ireland when I voted (remain). But after, I read up and was horrified at what I read. It's a catch 22 - there is no solution. There can't be a border, yet there must be a border. It's impossible.

Extremely irresponsible of the govt to ask for a vote on it.

This thread really takes me back to my childhood growing up in NI. We all knew most people on the mainland didn’t give a shit about us. It was only when they started bombing the mainland that people started sitting up and paying attention. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that again, eh?

It's not impossible - that's what the backstop is for. I'm talking about the "original" backstop here btw - the NI only backstop with a customs and phytosanitary border in the Irish Sea.

As long as Northern Ireland is inside a customs union with the EU, and has substantially the same regulatory environment, there is no need for a hard border.

With the backstop in place, England (and Wales, though I suspect perhaps in the fullness of time not Scotland ) can diverge as far as it wants and make deals with whoever it wants.

"No I didn’t think about Ireland. I didn’t care and I still don’t. My Brexit vote was based solely on how I thought my life and my DC’s lives would be impacted."
Presumably said by someone who is too young to remember how NI violence readily spills onto the mainland.

the NI only backstop with a customs and phytosanitary border in the Irish Sea

DUP have stated that approach also goes against the GFA.

As long as Northern Ireland is inside a customs union with the EU

Scotland won't buy that as it will be seen as preferential treatment for NI. Scotland had a larger majority to remain than NI. So if it proposed that NI remains in EU, but Scotland does not, every Scottish MP will vote against such proposal when presented to Parliament.

DUP won't buy it either as it changes NI status compared to the rest of the UK and hence breaks the GFA.

It "readily spills onto the mainland" (awful phrase) because otherwise it's treated as an "Irish problem" and put out of mind.

When Northern Ireland is part of the UK (look at your passport) and thus is, and has always been, a UK govt issue first.

Atholl, what do you think about how you and your DC's lives will now be affected?
If the Union breaks up, or if violence re-emerges in your country?