Ireland and your vote.

[RuggerHug]

I am genuinely interested in all opinions here and I really hope that comes across. I don't want to start arguments or stir up hatred or insults. I've been on these boards for awhile and I know I've probably been quite ranty at times. I really want to not be here, so I'd like to ask everyone who voted, leave or remain, the following and I'd really appreciate your answers/thoughts.

Did ROI and NI play a part in your decision to vote whatever way?

Did the effect of a vote either way to NI and ROI occur at all, if so how?

Since the result, did anyone have a change of heart/become more sure of their vote based on what came out regarding ROI and NI afterwards?

Have you any thoughts on how we've been during it all/how our media portrays activities in the UK(if you're aware of what is said/shown here).

Hopefully this won't come across as trying to start a fight but, in all of this, did you care about us and the fallout or did you consider it not the UKs/anyone elses problem?

For disclosure, I'm Irish, in ROI, spent a lot of time at the border/in NI before the GFA, not as much after. Anyone I know in the UK that had a vote voted remain, I know 1 Leave voter(who lives in ROI).

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

This is what Labour's 1997 manifesto said. No claims to predict the contents of the GFA, but a commitment to carry on laying the groundwork for peace.

Northern Ireland

Labour's approach to the peace process has been bipartisan. We have supported the recent agreements between the two governments - the Anglo-Irish Agreement, the Downing Street Declaration and the Framework Document. The government has tabled proposals which include a new devolved legislative body, as well as cross-border co-operation and continued dialogue between the two governments.

There will be as great a priority attached to seeing that process through with Labour as under the Conservatives, in co-operation with the Irish government and the Northern Ireland parties. We will expect the same bipartisan approach from a Conservative opposition.

We will take effective measures to combat the terrorist threat.

There is now general acceptance that the future of Northern Ireland must be determined by the consent of the people as set out in the Downing Street Declaration. Labour recognises that the option of a united Ireland does not command the consent of the Unionist tradition, nor does the existing status of Northern Ireland command the consent of the Nationalist tradition. We are therefore committed to reconciliation between the two traditions and to a new political settlement which can command the support of both. Labour will help build trust and confidence among both Nationalist and Unionist traditions in Northern Ireland by acting to guarantee human rights, strengthen confidence in policing, combat discrimination at work and reduce tensions over parades. Labour will also foster economic progress and competitiveness in Northern Ireland, so as to reduce unemployment.

You're just not believing in WestDublinPool enough!! Sound good? Or sound a bit dickish to the people who will be most affected? Hmmmm

Sunderland had a high leave vote even though they may be worse off in a no deal departure from EU.

What is interesting to me is the Leaver mentality that a particular version (hard) of their narrow win in 2016 must take precedence over EVERYTHING

Until the 2016 referendum result is overturned by a vote that produces a different result, the 2016 result remains in force.

So....they're going to get screwed up the arse by something they voted for based on lies and you think it should be forced on them anyway, even if they changed there mind? Jesus Mystery take a look at yourself and catch yourself on. Not going to entertain you any more, you've dragged this off topic for your own soap box and I don't want to risk this being deleted because you're vering towards goodwins law again. Good morning and go on with your day.

*their mind

No, and no. But then Northern Ireland and the Republic is not an important issue for the UK as a whole. A province of 1.5 million cannot dictate the direction of travel for the whole of the union of 70 million.

If it doesn’t work out Northern Ireland will either choose to pursue independence, or to try and join the republic. The rest of the uk will probably not realise they were part of the union beforehand.

DOI lived in all the home nations and currently live and work in Northern Ireland.

So....they're going to get screwed up the arse by something they voted for based on lies and you think it should be forced on them anyway, even if they changed there mind

I am originally from the north of England. Leave vote was zip all to do with;

Economics
Jobs
Trade

But, making the following statements;

Brussels go away
France go away
Germany go away

Britannia ruled the waves in WWI

Britannia ruled the skies in WWII

Britannia ruled the skies in 1982 when the sea harrier pilots nailed the Argentine pilots.

National pride will not allow UK to surrender to France and Germany. Why would UK do that after many victories over both?

Rugger I agree- I think it is very important not to be drawn away from your original query.

Just ignore the balderdash being spouted by someone who is not backward in exposing their own lack of knowledge.

If it doesn’t work out Northern Ireland will either choose to pursue independence, or to try and join the republic.

I don't think either of those things will happen. Pursuing independence is a crazy idea because we don't have an economy that would be able to support it. And as for choosing to join the rest of Ireland, what if they don't want us? And in fairness, they probably don't and who could blame them. No one wants the problem child.

“If it doesn’t work out”

Euphemistic

And of course 'if it doesn't work out' isn't just a case of a few job losses or a lower standard of living, its loss of lives.

It's hard to stomach the fact that my children's lives (and mine), and about a million and a half others are seen by some as expendable in the pursuit of some economic experiment. Collateral damage and all that.

This is a sad but beautiful piece about (among other things) the role of the EU in the end of the Troubles.

https://amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/specialreports/bordering-on-confusion-why-we-mustnt-forget-history-and-our-conflicting-identities-953556.html?twitterr_impression=true

"When I came back to live in Belfast in 2014, I found Catholics comfortable here as never before. I attributed this not only to the peace accords and powersharing in a devolved parliament, but also to the European Union, whose benign umbrella now sheltered both identities.
The EU, especially encouraged by Jacques Delors, had poured money into the North and was the general political framework for relations between Northern Ireland, Britain, and Ireland.

^The single market had made the border invisible. The peace achieved by the Good Friday Agreement meant it was no longer guarded by soldiers.
There was no widespread demand for a poll on Irish unity, as provided for in the Good Friday Agreement ... I felt so optimistic.
‘It’s over, at last,” I said to myself.^

I am a pessimist now. Brexit removes the benign umbrella of the EU, and has awakened old antagonisms. Dissident republicans are active. UVF flags fly in Belfast."

"If it doesn’t work out Northern Ireland will either choose to pursue independence, or to try and join the republic. "
Are you out of your fucking mind, casually saying shit like that.

Are you out of your fucking mind

More likely drug or alcohol abuse, very common among lone males in expat communities in Asia.

@bellinisurge

What do you suppose Northern Ireland will do if faced with a return of violence and exodus of investment whilst the rest of the union needs rid of them to ease entry into other markets?

Eventually either option becomes more comfortable than remaining in the union.

The alternative is that Brexit works well and Northern Ireland ends up in the best of both worlds with a foot in both markets in which case it will prosper and remain happily than ever in the union.

How about not subjecting people to that shit in the first place?

The way to have them get the best of both worlds is to keep them in the EU customs union.

@bellinisurge

But subjecting the parts of the union that have not benefited from the EU to their issues is ok? There is no option here where everyone gets what they want, you either inflict the EU on people who don’t want it, or Brexit on people who don’t want it. Fortunately there was a referendum to decide which way to go with this difficult conundrum and Brexit won.

My personal view is that Northern Ireland is likely to do very well out of Brexit. It has to in order to keep the ROI in a comfortable position so the EU will try to preserve prosperity in NI by whatever mechanisms it can. We cannot however discount the chance that Brexit might not be a positive event.

What do you suppose Northern Ireland will do if faced with a return of violence and exodus of investment whilst the rest of the union needs rid of them to ease entry into other markets?

Eventually either option becomes more comfortable than remaining in the union.

I think you underestimate the resilience and/or stubbornness of large swathes of the population of N Ireland. 30 years of death and misery didn't make Republicans feel that maybe it wasn't worth it in the pursuit of a united Ireland, and it didn't make Loyalists feel like being part of Ireland would be a price worth paying for peace. And the more bloody things got, the more determined people became not to be broken.

Mystery clearly knows fuck all about NI, RoI or even the UK. He moved away decades ago and hasnt bothered his arse looking back.

NI was making steady progress within the terms of the GFA. Anyone who thinks ripping that up is in anyway good for NI is totally deluded.

But then I doubt asdf has ever stepped foot in the place.

"their issues "
Are you about 12 or something. Google "the Manchester bomb" the other ones. I was in Manchester for one of them. Or Warrington. Or the Birmingham Pub bombings. Or any number of other mainland terrorism that I and people my age lived through.

But asdf12345 brexit didn't win in NI!

It is very alarming that DUP are espousing a Hard Brexit for NI when most don't want it at all. They have been called out on it many times for not representing the majority in NI, but continue to bluff and bluster.

Who are they representing is my question? How can they actually get away with bringing their Province into penury just because they think the entirety of NI (not true) want to remain with the Union?. A cohort of course would like to remain in the UK, but not at any price now, is my guess.

Far too much to lose. And all sides regularly take the Enterprise Train to the IFSC in Dublin and various other places to enjoy the ROI opportunities now.

Honestly. Entrenchment and fundamendalism is long gone, or so I thought. Hopefully the other Unionist parties (or Alliance Party that is romping up in the polls now) in NI will knock them off their perch before too much damage is done.