Westminstenders: The Slow No

[RedToothBrush]

Have to make this quick.

Johnson has made an 'offer' to the EU. Let's stress this isn't a deal because they haven't agreed.

The EU have made kind noises about it but will say no thanks.

The UK are expecting this, and despite what's been said apparently are expecting more negotiation on this.

The DUP and the ERG seem to be on board with the proposal meaning in theory Johnson might have numbers to get through parliament. Except its not a deal so this is currently meaningless.

Parliament is prorogued again from next week with the Queen's Speech the following week.

Hence the paradox: some GE2017 Remainer voters thought that supporting Corbyn would either prevent No Deal or cancel Brexit altogether. Instead, they kept May in power but in a crippled position that made it impossible for her to pass the WA, which led to the rise of Boris, which could in fact produce No Deal, which May herself would never have permitted.
Cendrillon

Boris or someone representing the ERG was always in the cards. The ERG were bitterly opposed to Theresa May and all her works and promises and worked determinedly to press her to do their bidding, eventually to oust her.

It's not the fault of people who voted for Labour, or Gina Miller, or Remainers, that the ERG, inspired by libertarian think tanks linked to George Mason University in Washington DC, and funded by the Koch Brothers, is a little cabal operating with its own ends in mind, and opposed to anyone standing in its way, including a PM from their own party.

'Bonkers socialists'
'The bearded loon'

Bingo continues.

Meanwhile, sensible individuals and business owners hunker down and await the impending economic disaster, including medicine shortages, brought upon the country by none other than The Conservative and Unionist Party, but that disaster is ok because they make the right noises about private property.

Jo Maugham has tweeted that disrupting the business of the EU (such as vetoing the budget) is a non-starter:

Such conduct would breach the Benn Act. And, if we succeed on Monday or on appeal, it will also be in contempt of court and the Prime Minister will face the music.

“some GE2017 Remainer voters thought that supporting Corbyn would either prevent No Deal or cancel Brexit altogether”

Neither no deal or cancelling brexit were considered options at that point, and labour had brexit on their manifesto. The arguments were about soft vs hard brexit, and most remainers were hoping for a soft brexit, which TM had already indicated she wasn’t going for. It is nonsense to say that remain voters were voting in the GE to avoid no deal or cancelling brexit. Blaming remain voters for the current stalemate is also wishful thinking - it is the leave camp conservative MPs who have failed to compromise with each other and have brought us to this situation. However, we are where we are, and avoiding no deal is paramount now.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7
Lib Dems to save Dominic Grieve in ‘remain alliance’ pact
Rival candidate will stand aside to allow former Tory rebel a free run at polls as another ex-minister defects

.....and avoiding no deal is paramount now.

To Cendrillon, supposedely a Remain voter, avoiding a Corbyn led Government is the be all and end all. As though most of us on this thread were Corbyn supporters......

* it is really positive news in RTB*s post that Grieve would be given a free run at it.

I don't want to detract from that immense positive but did we see the poll news in the Observer /Guardian ..

15 points - how can so many so lacking in insight.

"The Conservatives have opened up a 15-point lead over Labour following the party conference season, according to the latest Opinium poll for the Observer.
The Tories are up two points to 38%, compared with a week ago, while Labour is down one point on 23%. The Liberal Democrats have dropped five points to 15%.
Among remain voters, the Liberal Democrats have dropped seven points in a week, with Labour gaining nine points among the same pool of voters who voted to stay in the European Union"

Nobody's managed to give us the data behind that poll yet. Is it in the paper? Do we know the demographics and how many don't knows there were?

I think the Grieve thing was posted last night too.

I feel really low this morning and like there is no hope. This October waiting game is horrible. Lots of sadness at work this week.

Such conduct would breach the Benn Act. And, if we succeed on Monday or on appeal, it will also be in contempt of court and the Prime Minister will face the music.

I hope 'facing the music' means a potential prison sentence for contempt of court.

Also just to vent my angst I was telling a local friend old news about how I was asked to countersign an Irish passport application for a leave voting Mum who applied for Irish passports for her family.

She told me one of my neighbours a few doors down who is also an enthusiastic Leaver has received Irish passports for her family too. The hypocrisy and injustice makes me feel white hot with rage..

I hope you refused to sign the passport application. The hypocrisy makes my blood boil too.

+bear You are indulging in classic displacement behaviour: attacking a feeble bystander instead of the guilty abusers*

Sorry but that is utter bollocks.

Corbyn is not a ‘feeble bystander’, he’s the fucking leader of the opposition.

He’s pretty much the only person in the country who does have the power to change things right now

I still don’t trust any of those polls.

No, they're not convincing me either, born.

I honestly can’t see Corbyn as the problem here.
Labour COULD be much more powerful, and should if they had a better policy, but the problem with Corbyn is that people are projecting all sorts of bogeyman-es to an individual who has, like everybody else, a finite power and finite lifespan (politically, besides humanly). No deal effects will outlast any government, left or right, and there’s no going back into the Eu, probably not even if Barnier was to suddenly become British and new Pm. That door we’re slamming behind us will stay shut. We’ll trade for sure, but members? Pah!
So we’d better do it right. And instead, what a colossal, criminal shitshow

He’s pretty much the only person in the country who does have the power to change things right now

This isn't true though is it?

It is really - who else can actually make a difference right now?

It is really - who else can actually make a difference right now?

Nobody positions are largely entrenched. Blair/Major/Clegg/Heseltine/Campbell haven't been able to shift public opinion enough have they?

54321 welcome back, and glad that you are fine.

I'm puzzled by the bizarre caricature that posters on here (and Remainers in general) are raging lefties in love with Corbyn, and furthermore that the overweening danger of commie-chaos is so great and immediate (over-and-above Brexit), that all here must be cajoled and ridiculed into voting ERG Tory with the greatest urgency

No, but they have no power to stop BJ. Corbyn does - he could actually, y’know, oppose.

I don’t necessarily agree with a GNU but it would shake things up yet won’t happen because Corbyn won’t play ball unless he leads it and no one else will agree to that as he’s a twat

54321 welcome back and hope you feel much better soon!

Polling is as broken as our electoral system. Pollsters cannot get a representative sample, and more and more people are lying to pollsters out of suspicion of the motives of anyone 'official.'

Haven't heard mention of it for a while now, but it's worth remembering at the time there was a theory that TM really called the 2017 GE to try and lose and palm the whole mess off onto Labour - knowing that the party that "delivers Brexit" would become electoral toast for a generation.