Westminstenders: The Slow No

[RedToothBrush]

Have to make this quick.

Johnson has made an 'offer' to the EU. Let's stress this isn't a deal because they haven't agreed.

The EU have made kind noises about it but will say no thanks.

The UK are expecting this, and despite what's been said apparently are expecting more negotiation on this.

The DUP and the ERG seem to be on board with the proposal meaning in theory Johnson might have numbers to get through parliament. Except its not a deal so this is currently meaningless.

Parliament is prorogued again from next week with the Queen's Speech the following week.

No, but I'd have thought they wouldn't actually support no deal. That is not a sane person's viewpoint. It's a selfish person who doesn't give a shit about their fellow humans. Let's hope you don't suddenly find yourself needing urgent medication in case of no deal!

Here's an interesting list of all remain vs leave polls this year.

How can anyone defend a PM who tries to conspire with a foreign govt against a Supreme Court decision ?

How can anyone defend a PM who tries to No Deal, so rich hedge-funders can make billions out of betting against Sterling & UK businesses

How can anyone defend a PM who wants to destroy workers rights, consumer rights, environmental regs, to sell off the country to US big business ?

Corbyn is dim and ineffective, but he is not doing any of the above

The person who needs to stand down to stop this disaster isn't Corbyn; it's BJ
and then all the No Deal Brexiter Cabinet ministers like JRM

Changing the Labour leader is pointless when it is the Tory nihilist Brexiters causing this mess

bear You are indulging in classic displacement behaviour: attacking a feeble bystander instead of the guilty abusers

No, but I'd have thought they wouldn't actually support no deal. That is not a sane person's viewpoint. It's a selfish person who doesn't give a shit about their fellow humans.

I don't support No Deal at all. In fact, I'd gladly tell the Leavers to go fuck themselves so that we could Revoke tomorrow and return to the comfortable period of centre-right dominance that preceded the current shitshow. But the electorate has other ideas, and would most certainly reward us with Corbyn if we did that.

Why are you so gleeful about BoZo then? Support him, support no deal. So selfish and reprehensible.

"Did you think all 16+ million were cuddly lefty internationalists? We're not."

I'm not on the left either
but I'd rather much Corbyn than No Deal - about the only circumstances under which I would ever want him to win

In any poll, Remainers like me would never show up as Labour, probably we'd be "won't say / don't know"
Just means: hold your nose on GE day & vote for the Remainer with the best chance, even a Corbynite

And just when the bearded loon couldn't get any worse, here comes the double-down:

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BREAKING. John McDonnell tells me that “we’ll NEVER accept an interim government without Jeremy Corbyn as PM.”

Not even if a government led by a “impartial”/bipartisan PM was the only way to stop No Deal?

“No, cause it wouldn’t work and it won’t have the support of Labour MPs.”

Oh dear.

@CendrillonSings

Understandably you’re thrilled by the Opinium Poll....

However, just a few days before the EU elections Opinium published a poll which overstated the Brexit Party’s vote by 8%, and understated the LDs by 5% - just saying....

Why are you so gleeful about BoZo then? Support him, support no deal.

Because he'll put the left back into its hole for another generation, while we recover from a potential No Deal. I say "potential", because if Boris does win a majority, his MPs will pass just about any deal he tells them to, even a reheated WA, and I suspect Boris would infinitely prefer to govern without the chaos of No Deal.

Cox 'threatens to resign if Johnson doesn't ask for extension'

No link cos it's the daily fail ... but the house of cards comes one step closer to collapsing.

Except I can see him doing the exact bloody opposite.
A no deal will make everything worse for the areas of the midlands and the north that voted leave because they wanted things to get better.
Following that a swing to the left, even the hard left doesn't stretch my imagination much.
This group won't have much less left to try.

Much else.

"while we recover from a potential No Deal"

which the Tory fanatics would have caused deliberately.

I'm never impressed by politicians who want credit for handling a godawful disaster that they have deliberately created for ideology & profit
I just never thought this could happen in the UK

The ones who should be put back in their hole for a generation are the Tory party who've let themselves be taken over by fanatical nihilists and crooked spivs
and are going to wreck the country for decades, regardless of who wins the next several GEs

Thought for the day, courtesy of Jonathan Lis:

"When you think of it, the most eye-wateringly extraordinary element of the allegations that the UK government is trying to bribe Hungary is that it would be paying another country to force medicine shortages on the British people"

But at least we escaped chaos with Ed!

IF the Tories No Deal and win the next GE, then voters should accept that Brexit was a Tory project from start to finish.
They created it and they wrecked the economy carrying it out

Noone can predict whether in the next several GEs after Brexit, a poorer and furious electorate will turn to a hard left Labour or a hard right Tory / BXP,
could be either, or one after the other,

Maybe both main parties will move further each GE to the extremes, to capture public anger.
All because Cameron called an irresponsible referendum for entirely party political reasons and fucked it up

Indeed eye-watering, misti

and yet it is Remainers - on Tory govt orders - who are to be investigated for foreign collusion
(unless the Tories have abandoned that idea too)

EU’s chief negotiator issues warning to UK government as talks appear on brink of collapse

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/05/michel-barnier-blame-boris-johnson-brexit-talks-eu-uk

In what appeared to be the opening shots in a blame gamee^ as both sides sense failure
.....
“If they do not change, I do not believe, on the basis of the mandate I have been given by the EU27, that we can advance,”
Barnier said on Saturday at an event in Paris organised by Le Monde.
...
“I want to be extremely clear.
No deal will never be Europe’s choice.
It would be – and note the conditional tense, because I hope still to find a deal – it would always be the UK’s choice, not ours.
We’re ready for it, we’ve taken measures to protect our citizens and our businesses.
But we do not want it.”

As the Brexit pressure ratchets up another notch, Michel Barnier appears everything most of the current British government is not:
clear, calm, precise – and logical to a fault.
.....
“I work on facts, on figures.
On what is legal and operablee^.
My obligation is to defend, calmly and firmly, the interests of the European Union, of its citizens, its companies, its regions …
And in leaving, the UK cannot ask us to change what we are.”

There are some top replies to that J. Lis tweet:

"We send the EU £350 million a week (crossed fingers)... Let's send it to Hungary instead for reasons that we are now all too insane even to articulate."

All because Cameron called an irresponsible referendum for entirely party political reasons and fucked it up

Well on that we can certainly agree. But we can also spot all kinds of inflection points even after then. If the Miller case hadn't forced the Government to obtain Parliament's consent for a Deal, TM would have signed the WA herself, no trouble, no fuss. If the electorate hadn't bought into Corbyn the Messiah in 2017, TM would have used her enhanced majority and authority to force the WA through, no trouble, no fuss...

As it is, Boris is now cornered and forced to chose between losing power and No Deal, which is possibly the only circumstance in which he would ever actively choose No Deal! Lots of paradoxical blame to go around on many sides...

She won, and the bonkers socialists were kept out of power.
In whose world is losing a small but workable majority and having to stitch up a C & S deal with a minor party that no-one in Great Britain can vote for, called 'a win'. The 100 seat majority that she hoped for would be a win.

If the electorate hadn't bought into Corbyn the Messiah in 2017, TM would have used her enhanced majority and authority to force the WA through, no trouble, no fuss...

Or if May hadn't given in to the temptation to stick it to Labour, and carried on with her existing majority, she might have got her deal through. She might not, because she has the ERG to contend with and they won't be appeased.

Extension = Farage as UK EU Commissioner and a plan to vote against the next 7 year EU budget apparently

iirc, the Miller case required Parliament to have a vote on invoking A50

afaik, Parliament has to vote approval for trade deals and treaties anyway, which would include the WA and also any future trade deals

Also, in March, the HoL went even further when they voted for an amendment that would allow Parliament additionally to set guidelines for trade deals and get a meaningful vote at the start and end of negotiations.

She might not, because she has the ERG to contend with and they won't be appeased.

Subsequent events show that her small initial majority wouldn't have been enough. Hence the paradox: some GE2017 Remainer voters thought that supporting Corbyn would either prevent No Deal or cancel Brexit altogether. Instead, they kept May in power but in a crippled position that made it impossible for her to pass the WA, which led to the rise of Boris, which could in fact produce No Deal, which May herself would never have permitted.

In that eventuality, those voters should feel more than a little silly.

Express

And Times say Johnson won't resign and will dare the Queen to sack him (this totally contradicts the Telegraph which suggests he will extend and install Farage. Times says he won't extend and will cause a constitutional crisis).