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Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Cult

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 30/09/2019 17:45

Is it over yet?

The Tory Party Conference is in full swing in the Manchester Rain, and is proving to be its usual fun.

Johnson is caught up in all sorts of allegations of abuses of power - the non-declaration of his "friendship" to a busty blonde whom was getting a large tax payer grant, and then there the Odey question after his sister said he was under the control of the Hedge Funders.

And thats before we talk about the 40 hospitals, his provocative language and how many times he can say the word surrender.

There is lots of distancing from Lyton Crosby. And accusations that Johnson has gone 'rogue' only listening to the wisdom of Cummings and Symonds.

The Queen apparently has asked for advice as to under what circumstance she can dismiss a PM.

AND NO ONE IS EVEN TALKING ABOUT A DEAL.

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flouncyfanny · 02/10/2019 06:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thecatfromjapan · 02/10/2019 06:52

I'm really glad to hear you're happy with your jacket, Born. I bought myself a ring, which I wear & gaze at when my mood starts tumbling. So now I'll think of you with your red jacket every time I do my own sanity-preserving ring-wearing. 😁

BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2019 06:59

That sounds understandable, math
The other parties seem to have rallied behind Varadkar on this, so a united front from Ireland

BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2019 07:00

Your red leather jacket sounds ace, born ! 🤛🏼
and much cheaper over the years than a cat !

thecatfromjapan · 02/10/2019 07:03

It really is hard not to see Brexit and Trump as not hanging together:

Westministenders: Conference Cult
BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2019 07:03

So much going on, they sneaked in blatant party partiality in the use of public funds:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/oct/01/labour-attacks-plans-new-hospitals-tory-held-areas-pork-barrel-politics

Labour has accused the government of “old-fashioned pork-barrel politics” after it emerged that
the overwhelming majority of areas promised help with future hospital rebuilding programmes are in Conservative-held seats or are those targeted by the party. 🤬

Songsofexperience · 02/10/2019 07:12

Why don't Leavers have a huge surge of nationalism against the US when it interferes, but are obsessed about opposing a jointly run trading bloc with the EU?

I'd suggest they'll take any old crap from the US because they're English speakers (and rich and powerful). They don't identify or respect the EU because the otger guys don't speak English (except for Ireland which they see as troublemaker and subordinate anyway). Not a sophisticated view I'll grant you but as there is no logic in brexit and leaver sentiment I think it boils down to the language (see thread discussing FOM with oz,nz and canada).

cherin · 02/10/2019 07:14

That’s step 4 or 5, from the Ece Temelkuran book I finished yesterday.
If you’re reading it or plan to read it and don’t want to know the final “ray of hope” statement, skip now.
If you have already decided you’re not going to read it and want to know the conclusion, it’s a simple: don’t give up, get or stay politically active, don’t take any right for granted, and keep on talking. If you’re passive you’ll be run over for sure. And apparently there’s a particular female solidarity about this, which this forum kind of shows except that I understand there’s people of all sexes so we’re even better.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 02/10/2019 07:19

What Corbyn is doing is trying to cajole the LDs, Tory rebels and Labour independents into supporting what would essentially be a Labour-led Government, not a GNU.

Precisely when we need party politics to take a back seat and for our MPs to act in the national interest, Corbyn is trying to make it all about him and his political ambitions. Corbyn is the villain here, not Swinson, Hammond, Boles etc, who would be happy to support someone other than themselves from a different political party.

Cool story bro

mathanxiety · 02/10/2019 07:24

I don't think the Blueshirts are considered properly fascist by historians, BCF. Fianna Fáil would be more populist if that's a fascist trait. And they have the tagline The Republican Party. Fine Gael have traditionally been in coalitions with Labour. Fianna Fáil were in with the Progressive Democrats who were much more right wing.

Fascism in Ireland was peculiar. It was hyper religious (RC) for starters and very much opposed to the Godless Commies as a primary motivation. The Spanish Civil War was its ideal confrontation and a contingent went off to fight for Franco, while the IRA sent a group to fight against him.

There was a street brawler element though, and a febrile atmosphere in the wake of the Civil War that made for tense conditions in the early 1930s when Ireland had two General Elections in a row, in 1932 and 1933. Cumann na nGaedheal played a Red Scare card in 1932, comparing DeValera to Stalin. There was also an attempt to shut down the Fianna Fail mouthpiece, the Irish Press, during the 1932 election campaign.

The Progressive Democrats were the Desmond O'Malley wing of Fianna Fail plus some defectors from Fine Gael. They had liberal views on social issues which they combined with conservative economic policies. While the rebels held strong convictions on Irish economic policy in the 1980s, the former FFers also hated Charles Haughey with a visceral hatred (the hatred was mutual) and it's hard to say how much of a part this feeling played in the creation of the (small) breakaway party. They all managed to pull together, more or less, in coalition, though it was always a bumpy ride.

Michael McDowell, who ultimately became leader of the Progressive Democrats, is a grandson of Eoin McNeill (prominent in early 20th century Irish history), so had a family legacy in politics (not unusual in Ireland). He was possibly the most knee jerk right winger of the PDs on many issues.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_McDowell_(politician).

The 80s were a watershed decade in Irish politics, with shifting identities among all the major parties, and the generation born in the 60s and brought up with TV, foreign travel, less inclination to identify as practicing members of a religious congregation, and way more third level education than previous generations had access to beginning to make their presence felt in the voting booth. All parties responded to changing demographics, but the transformation of FG into a modern socially liberal party has been quite a spectacular example of holding a finger to the wind.

Irish political parties are virtually all right of centre, and when you strip away original identities forged around the Treaty negotiations and the Civil War there is little to choose among them from the pov of economic policy. FF tends to be populist and a bit on the spendy side (but again, depends how the wind blows), and FG tends to identify more with austerity (this is FG's achilles heel right now). FF tends to attract more socially conservative voters. FG has positioned itself as more liberal from a social policy pov but before the late 70s (under Garret Fitzgerald) FG and FF were both socially conservative parties. By comparison with the rest of Europe, extremely conservative. Labour have lost votes to Sinn Fein in recent decades, as Labour became identified as a party of champagne socialists out of touch with the needs of ordinary people. FF claims the Republican mantle but obv has come under some pressure since SF began operating as community organisers and ultimately contesting local elections and then general elections. SF encroaches on traditional Labour and FF voters.

No party really fits any specific niche. All are constantly evolving. There is nothing comparable to the (former?) blue vs red rosette of English politics.

ARoomWithoutADoor · 02/10/2019 07:29

Belated pmk...

TemporaryPermanent · 02/10/2019 07:36

Leavers or at least the Leave authorities do promote a huge surge of nationalism against the us when the American person involved states facts rather than Trump style 'itll be great' pablum. Obama making a single rational statement about US future trading priorities has been spun for 3 years as 'the Yanks telling us what to do'.

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 02/10/2019 07:38

A beautiful sunny and frosty morning here on the edges of the Peak District. I too was awake at 3-4am Sad
I am stunned at the stupidity of the proposals by JoCum. And as for saying be prepared to spend the last 2 weeks of the month in court? Wtf are they doing? What's their long term goal. I can't see us being given an extension for only 3 m

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 02/10/2019 07:41

Posted too soon (angry fingers typing).

3 months when 6 months has got us nowhere. We need years to sort out this shit. It needs to be a long, carefully drawn out process that doesn't fuck with anyone or anything. There needs to be a plan. An actual plan. Why would the Eu give 3 months for further fuck all-ing? It's become clear to all that this is just not doable on a short time scale. 10 years might do it.

bellinisurge · 02/10/2019 07:48

Kicking the can not only down the road but into someone else's garden to deal with.

squid4 · 02/10/2019 07:52

weary hello
do I really want to catch up with the news?

BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2019 07:54

Do the EU see it in their interest to give us another 2 years or 5 years ?
If so, they'll offer it
Or they might just offer it for the joy of seeing BJ's head explode Wink

Or they might look at what the Uk has done with the previous extensions
"Don't waste this time" ...

BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2019 07:58

katya adlerr@BBCkatyaadler*

EU diplomat:
“The more you leave the backstop text, the more EU wants legal precision from UK

.. exploring all eventualities in the future, ‘explore every corner’”

The EU view is: there’s not enough time .. unless there’s another extension /5

Though EU hearts sink at the prospect of Brexit process going on and on.. /6

Violetparis · 02/10/2019 08:03

If Labour and the Lib Dems don't agree on on a leader/strategy soon I will blame both for not acting in the interests of the country.

Sostenueto · 02/10/2019 08:11

Bet the EU waiting with baited breathe for Boris the animals long awaited deal, no deal, offer! NOT!

What a farce!
Labour can't do anything having actually fallen for the real trick of not accepting a GE because there's no way JC will ever get a majority which was Cummings cunning plan to start with.
Meanwhile people are dying. In my area 28 people have died on the streets in the last 5 years.
So are we all ready for no deal yet?

Sostenueto · 02/10/2019 08:17

Cummings knew JC would be unable to get a majority for an interim government. That was his plan. . together labour to refuse GE knowing that the opposition scuppered themselves. Deflection my dear deflection and it worked. Parliament is now effectively unable to do anything. Next thing another proguation after 19 th.

Sostenueto · 02/10/2019 08:18

Prorogation

borntobequiet · 02/10/2019 08:20

Farming Today
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0008y5z
Dire predictions from dairy farmers. FFS how do the DUP get away with what they're doing?

Sostenueto · 02/10/2019 08:23

The official and lawful leader of the main opposition party is Jeremy Corbyn. You cannot have anyone other than JC as a leader for an interim Government. The Queen even knows this. No one else can go to the Queen to ask to form a government other than the official and lawful leader of the main party opposition.

Sostenueto · 02/10/2019 08:25

Don't worry born the DUP will agree to anything for another 2 billion of taxpayers money.

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