Westministenders: Conference Cult

[RedToothBrush]

Is it over yet?

The Tory Party Conference is in full swing in the Manchester Rain, and is proving to be its usual fun.

Johnson is caught up in all sorts of allegations of abuses of power - the non-declaration of his "friendship" to a busty blonde whom was getting a large tax payer grant, and then there the Odey question after his sister said he was under the control of the Hedge Funders.

And thats before we talk about the 40 hospitals, his provocative language and how many times he can say the word surrender.

There is lots of distancing from Lyton Crosby. And accusations that Johnson has gone 'rogue' only listening to the wisdom of Cummings and Symonds.

The Queen apparently has asked for advice as to under what circumstance she can dismiss a PM.

AND NO ONE IS EVEN TALKING ABOUT A DEAL.

What is interesting is it has been reported that the British government briefed various European governments on this plan over the last few days. Those governments did not include Ireland.

I originally thought this was just a bad faith ruse to get to no deal but was it a very poor to fracture the unity of the EU 27.

Oakenbach I'm genuinely not sure it's as simple as 'villains'. It's genuinely difficult.

But

It would help a lot if all parties involved dialled down the eye-on-an-election rhetoric, pulled their outriders off social media, and had a go at explaining to the public how and why it's difficult.

Sadly, nuance, long explanations of difficulties, reason, etc. Have yet to make a consistent te-appearance in Brexit UK.

☹️

Mirror the only one leading on the Tory conference punchup & other escapades under "Same old Tories"

Times leading on Harry / Meghan suing MoS

Reports I read was that the govt was briefing that Varadkar would have to cave in

@BigChocFrenzy
They could not actually be ignorant or arrogant enough to believe he would.

Any of the rebels saying "I won't accept X as PM" is part of the problem, regardless who "X" is

No Deal is worse than any of them as PM - Corbyn. Clarke or anyone else

Britain's hair is on fire and the govt is pouring on petrol
while the Opposition are arguing about the logo on the fire extinguisher.

You know, the most likely explanation for Johnson's actions is that he hasn't a clue & is as lazy & crap as he has always been in the past.

Which is, of course, somewhat unfortunate for the majority of the citizens of the UK.

I suggest that any sentence about BJ's govt that starts with "They could not actually be ignorant or arrogant enough to"
be reviewed

I think I'm going to trust the Benn Act.
😁

It's going to help me get through the next few days!!!

@thecatfromjapan

Fair point, and I agree with what you’ve written - it’s a shame when everything has to be boiled down to a simple sound bite....

I used “villain” out of frustration that Corbyn is repeatedly being held up as the reasonable one here when actually I believe the opposite is true! He’s the one putting party and self before country.

I'm not sure I explained West Brits very well, BCF. The Irish Times, for example, is a West Brit paper. I'm not sure if there are real West Brits in the sense of people who would like to rejoin the Union or anything like that.

My DB is a bit of a West Brit - he thinks 1916 and the War of Independence were unnecessary bloodshed, seems to think Irish culture (music and language) are inferior and thinks that The Famine didn't just happen in Ireland, as blight was all over Europe. But my DB isn't considered normal (for many reasons, his West Brit views being the least among them).

I don't think the Blueshirts are considered properly fascist by historians, BCF. Fianna Fáil would be more populist if that's a fascist trait. And they have the tagline The Republican Party. Fine Gael have traditionally been in coalitions with Labour. Fianna Fáil were in with the Progressive Democrats who were much more right wing.

Fine Gael brought in free university, I think divorce, marriage regardless of same sex or opposite sex and of course the abortion ref we've just had recently.

I'm not sure if they are 'friendlier' or more realistic or have residual guilt. It's still all tied up in the Civil War.

Um yes, BJ has never come across as a schemer, merely a tool of a (not as clever as he thinks) schemer

His record as journalist and mayor consistently shows he is lazy, leaves others to do his work
a faker, who invents stuff instead of doing his job
and is vicious to all who get in his way

The amiable bumbler is the image he likes to project, which goes down well with the large "tired of experts" section

That could wear thin after No Deal
but not as long as he has scapegoats

BigChocFrenzy
I've read about Fine Gael being "West Brits", but also their flirtation with fascism, which made me regard them with some caution even during the Troubles, when they were the "friendlier" of the 2 main parties

I also wondered if West Brits generally had faded away over the years, since polls consistently show about 90% of people in Ireland want to stay in the EU
(or is that just the economy trumping sentiment ?)

The fascism was about a 100 years ago to be fair - they're very far removed from that now - these days they're quite a socially liberal party, pro emigration etc.

"West Brits" is a term of insult (sorry, but it is) - and it's directed at anyone who would be considered to be sympathetic to Britain. You might get called a "west brit" if you play cricket for example, or if you're not seen as being completely enthusiastic about a United Ireland.

Nothing to do with re-joining the UK or with the EU.

Fine Gael always got the label (they were the party that supported the treaty, until Varadkar* they never showed much interest in the North or much support for Northern Nationalists) but less so these days as Varadkar/Coveney etc are seen to be standing up to Britain in the national interest and supporting us in the North. FG might even shake the label permanently if they continue as they are.

*In my view, northern nationalist here.

ballyhoo The "fascist" bit was something I read during the early Troubles, so decades before Tinternet and I couldn't check it

• in fact I was probably early teens and it took me many years to learn I needed multiple sources for important things

V useful info, thanks to Rdoo, ballyhoo
Westmininstenders threads are great for learning about such topics

Good timing in the US Congress:

Resolution supporting Good Friday Agreement proposed in US Congress

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/resolution-supporting-good-friday-agreement-proposed-in-us-congress-1.4036893

A resolution supporting the Good Friday Agreement has been proposed in the US Congresss^.

Republican congressman Peter Kingg^, the co-chair of the Irish caucus on Capitol Hill, together with New York Democrat Tom Suozzii^, brought forward the resolution to the House of Representatives.

Mr Suozzi said:
“Ireland is one of the oldest and closest friends of the United States, and the Irish people have been a crucial part of the fabric of our nation for well over a century.

We need to ensure that Brexit and other political challenges don’t threaten the peace process by reintroducing a hard border.”

The representative from Long Island added:
“As a member of the House Ways and Means Committeee^,
which has jurisdiction over any trade agreements between the United States and United Kingdom,^^
I will fight to make a soft border and implementation of the Good Friday Agreement requirements for any negotiation.”

Noting that the agreement was a “groundbreaking success” that proved critical to decades of relative peace,
the resolution states that Britain’s exit from the European Union “threatens to undermine progress that has been made in moving beyond the legacy of the past in Northern Ireland. ”

I would laugh if the US via its support for the GFA went and scuppered those wonderful Trade Deals with the USA that the extreme right wing are desperate to bring about.

And I’m still wondering why Corbyn would even want to be a caretaker PM.

Woken early so donated to Led by Donkeys and Marcus Ball to pass the time. What with crowdfunding and reckless clothing purchases to cheer me up, my bank balance is looking ropey. (Red leather jacket was well worth it though, gives me a happy feeling every time I wear it.)

Like Born I'm awake at an ungodly hour (again). Too sleep deprived to figure out the implications of the last few posts.

Timing is everything isn't it - we have...

Reports I read was that the govt was briefing that Varadkar would have to cave in. BUT in the US

the resolution states that Britain’s exit from the European Union threatens to undermine progress that has been made in moving beyond the legacy of the past ...

I'm surprised there haven't been moved at this level before in the US given their Irish links. Do you think Varadkar would ask for this or be consulted?

However passionately anyone believes in Leave surely they can see that the status trading quo was better than this? Does the fact that there's a Democrat majority in the House of Representatives mean this resolution will pass?

Why don't Leavers have a huge surge of nationalism against the US when it interferes, but are obsessed about opposing a jointly run trading bloc with the EU?

Too early to get my head around it all. One thing I do know is that even if I was a Leaver I'd be thinking - the timing for this departure is just not right. It was never time critical. Let's take a decade - work at being a leading force the EU again - and see how it all pans out whilst making a workable plan B just in case.

Still incredulous that any country is so very stupid that it didn't think through the GFA consequences before having a ref.

Hi lonely!
Things seem to be moving towards some kind of resolution in the US, but that’s not the first time...who knows where it’s going...but Trump/Brexit seem so intertwined it’s hard not to feel that momentous things might happen here. The problem for is is that looming deadline coupled with Govt recklessness and the paralysis in opposition. I do feel Corbyn needs to move aside, but I fear he’s so inflexible and lacking in imagination - and in thrall to a small circle of advisers who are running their own agenda - that he won’t.

A House resolution is just that - but it's a shot across the bows of both Trump and Johnson even if it isn't carried.

Rdoo I think that Fine Gael are trying really hard to avoid accusations of 'selling out' (to harken back to the Treaty negotiations and the Irish Civil War) partly because they are sensitive to perceptions arising from quite distant history.

@Oakenbeach I hear you. I march around my house saying far, far worse about all the players in this. ☹️

I just thought it was an apposite moment to interject the constant refrain about Brexit being complicated. And everything to do with it being complicated.

One of the awful features of Brexit is watching elements of social media (Twitter, especially) simplifying that complication to the point of ... well, to the point of mendacity, really. It's so, so unhelpful & I wish there was a concerted effort to stop that. ☹️