Westminstenders: The Tory Party Spectacular

[RedToothBrush]

A row over parliamentary language and conduct and how MPs are afraid of extremists has over shadowed talk of Brexit.

Cummings has said if you don't want to leave without a deal, vote for a deal.

Yet there isn't a Johnson approved one in front of the Commons and the EU are utterly despairing of Johnson's blank non papers and his full on Trump bullshit.

Then there's the threats to the rule of law.

Apparently there are five known suggestions to bypass the Benn Act and refuse to ask for an extension.
See Twitter Thread Here

This weekend sees the start of the Tory Party Conference. With a parliamentary vote to block a recess, its rather scuppered plans for the rest of the conference. Johnson's planned speech at the conference clashes with PMQ so he may well not attend the Commons.

Expect the conference to be.... Er... Inflammatory...

This isn't helpful from the LDems
The EU doesn't need a lecture from the Brits

Joe Barnes@Barnes_Joe

Lib Dem MEPs write to Jean-Claude Juncker to condemn him for trying to do a deal with Boris Johnson.

The Ballymena and Bloody Sunday massacres in NI were NOT planned by the Heath govt, but by a handful of officers who decided to copy the playbook of dirty wars in fascist S American countries.

One of DWs best friends DHs was in 2 para and just says "You don't sent 2 para in to babysit" when he mentions it ?

Were you privy to all discussions between officers of 2 Para bfore those murders ?

The UK would be left to sink or swim on its own, until at least the (new ?) UK govt eventually caves in and signs up to the EU preconditions for talks, i.e. the main WA terms

Or just cravenly decides to try to throw in its lot with the USA.

@flouncyfanny aged 8 he took one look at Boris dangling on a zip wire and said what a twit. He called it before I did.

The Ballymena Massacre was the paras going into an area and shooting the residents at random
Just because

If its ex-members really think the Paras would do that sort of thing without any orders, then the regiment should be disbanded

The UK would be left to sink or swim on its own, until at least the (new ?) UK govt eventually caves in and signs up to the EU preconditions for talks, i.e. the main WA terms ..... Or just cravenly decides to try to throw in its lot with the USA.

I think a UK without access to the EU is of no use to the USA. Which is worth bearing in mind, if you think that "no deal" is a great state of affairs.

There's a lot of macho talk surrounding these incidents.
It was a handful of soldiers in 2 Para HQ company involved in the Bloody Sunday incident.

There had been warnings not to send the Para's into such a volatile situation. Major general Moore, GOC NI, over ruled them, but certainly with no intent to cause the subsequent tragedy.

I can remember the horror of watching two off duty British soldiers being dragged from their cars, beaten, and finally killed with a bullet to the back of the head after their car "accidentally" strayed into a funeral procession for the victims of the Michael Stone (not that one) attack a few days previously. Just over 30 years ago.

A very close relative took the famous photo. Subsequently had to leave the country.

Basil No I did not worry, other than the mum bits. She's fine. But it is an extra worry, something I experienced when working in London during the IRA bombs. Thankfully, she doesn't speak with a Norn Iron accent.

BCF
Were you privy to all discussions between officers of 2 Para bfore those murders ?

Wow - were you ??

One of the arguments put forward for not now prosecuting people like soldier F is that those who gave the orders are more guilty but have escaped punishment
(those much older senior officers died in the meantime)

So those senior officers didn't ordered anything illegal, but yet are mainly responsible for Bloody Sunday

The British Army committed mass murder of civilians in those 2 atrocities and several others

However, those responsible were never brought to trial

All the whitewashing and nit-picking in the world won't wash away that stain on the UK's reputation

This isn't helpful from the LDems The EU doesn't need a lecture from the Brits

I'm no military strategist, but there is a case for simply throwing everything you can at the enemy all over the place to try and dissipate their forces ?

It doesn't do to "surrender" before you've started. Who'd have thought Finland would hold the might of the entire Red Army to a defeat in 1940 ?

Cocktail time, anyone ?

He should be on the comedy stage not the world stage.

@flouncyfanny

Meanwhile back in real time:

Johnson does the decent thing and says everyone else but him is wrong.

And:

To calm down.

Lovely.

www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/29/brexit-latest-news-tory-conference-boris-johnson-conservative-suggests-his-critics-had-eu-help-drafting-benn-act-to-stop-no-deal-live-new

It will probably get him extra points in the polls today.

Much more recently, I still can't accept that Jean Charles de Menezes can leave home quite innocently one day, and end up without a head before noon, and it's nobodys fault.

Because I am a self identifying non-moron, I can see that it might be possible to relieve the individual officers of liability, if they were following orders in a system where their commanders are then on the hook. However, it seems that no one was in charge that day. No one at all. Not quite sure what President Truman would have made of that.

It will probably get him extra points in the polls today

But will points mean prizes ?

I would suggest that it was more an example of "lack of direct control on the ground" than specific orders having been given prior to the march.

The Adjutant of 1 Para, who was present on the day, went on to become Chief of the Defence Staff. It certainly didn't hinder his career.

I certainly d

I would suggest that it was more an example of "lack of direct control on the ground" than specific orders having been given prior to the march.

Not really the most reassuring answer - especially since we are in the midst of possibility seen armed troops* on the streets of mainland Britain. Let's hope they have a bit more "direct control" eh ?

*Mrs Thatcher would be spinning in her grave. Although I guess it is a pretty Churchillian thing to do.

DG "Following orders" died as a legal defence after Nuremburg

UK soldiers during initial training are taught their responsibilities under the Geneva Convention and they also receive refreshers

Police are certainly taught that they have to act legally