Westminstenders: What hangs in the balance?

[RedToothBrush]

Yellow Hammer (and Black Swan if it exists) and other documents the government itself has produced are our truths and our evidence.

I look to Thomas Jefferson quotes in trying to defend liberal democracy.

His most famous of quotes is

Thomas Jefferson was the principal author of the Declaration of Independence. The Declaration states, “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….”

Self evident truths. These are the bedrock of democracy.

There are many more quotes from Jefferson which talk about the shining beacon of truth and the threats to liberty from falsehoods and those who tell them.

He argued that when the power of the state is used to avoid scrutiny we should be worried and afraid. As a leader he should never be afraid of the truth, because the truth always exists and you can only merely hide it before it makes itself apparent anyway.

“The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government.”

Today I feel the need to dust off old Jefferson for my own sanity and to remind myself of what matters. Jefferson helps me focus on dangers and how you fight back. It always comes back to exposure to the truth - how do you work to expose this (and the role of journalism in this)

Seek the truth. Talk the truth. Even if that means being self critical and humble in admitting your mistakes and errors.

It is not your identity as Leaver, Remainer, Tory, Labour, LDer, SNPer, woman, man, English, Northern Irish, Scottish, Welsh or European right now.

These identities are harming us, by making us look at the wrong thing rather than see the real danger facing us. They divide us whilst they conquer us.

What you should be focusing on NOW is your commitment to democracy in the face of someone in power actively and explicity saying the rule of law does not matter and the courts are wrong. That is advocating mob rule.

Johnson stood and said threats to MPs were humbug. And refused to moderate his language despite so many (mainly female) MPs saying the threats they received were extremely serious (remembering we've even had a prosecution for a plot to kill Rosie Cooper as well as other successful prosecutions for threats to MPs)

This is where we are at.

Focus on it.

No Deal Brexit and the future of liberal democracy in this country are indivisible and inseparable. They are entwined by the rule of law.

Brexit is NOT in of itself a threat to liberal democracy. It is HOW we leave that is.

I wish this was being said and emphasised concisely and cleanly.

Another General Election also stands to potentially further weaken the "will of the people" momentum if it delivers another hung parliament. So if we are supposed to believe that Boris and all his little elves are that clever, then what's their compensating control for such an eventuality ?

So if we are supposed to believe that Boris and all his little elves are that clever, then what's their compensating control for such an eventuality?

Coalition Mark II with the Lib Dems for 5 years, Leavers told to go fuck themselves, Corbyn locked out. Sounds good to me!

BCF.

My current thinking is 3.

1 makes him look weak. 2 requires him to willingly stop being PM temporarily which I can't see happening.

@TheMShip - looks like my scepticism was a little over zealous. Just consulted with an expert, and it seems there is something in it after all.

So all that genetic material quietly being accrued might one day be another feed into targeted advertising and political segmentation.

Definitely one for the "Today I learned" folder ....

Those policies passed at Labour conference were much too far left for my taste, but they are not a hard left dictatorship

Just as if BJ wins a GE and he has the votes to get his policies through,
so can Labour win and vote theirs through.

"It lasts a few months until Boris wins a majority"

The wealthy German conservatives in the late 1920s, early 1930s kept telling themselves that it was only until communism and socialism had been defeated,
then they'd put Hitler back in his box

You can't decide to switch off democratic institutions for a few months just until your side wins

Once switched off, they may never return

Or the other side promptly does that against you

• Are you really 100% that the Tories will win the next GE
• and the one after that, after a few years of the economy falling over the cliff ?

Interesting insertion of the word trumps there Perking

BigChoc pretty Under FPTP, the Tories can win a majority with only about 31% of votes

I don't disagree with you - but what I was hypothesising was that they may well not - look at the evidence of the last 3 elections (which is why I mentioned hung or unstable governments: Cameron may have unexpectedly won a majority in 2015 but it obviously wasn't deemed sufficiently stable for May, hence her going for the GE in 2017).

The tribal loyalties are breaking down - maybe not quickly enough, but enough to make predicting elections via polls a mug's game difficult and actually require a constituency by constituency analysis, because of tactical and/or 3 or even 4 way split voting.

We could actually end up with the situation that the largest party in terms of MPs wins a smaller percentage of the vote than the second largest party.

The era of the government winning a majority of votes cast is long gone - on that I think we are all agreed

3 won’t need the SC to intervene. Surely it will just be a mandatory injunction from the High Court requiring him to ask for the extension in accordance with the law.

He would be in contempt of court if he didn’t comply but it does give him the I was forced to do it excuse.

It's as though they have an allegiance to the country of Russia – now a mafia state feeding its far-right – which trumps their well-articulated left-wing beliefs

They're authoritarians before all else so no, it's not odd to see them on the same side as Trump.
Left Right have no meaning when we get to the extremes.

I can't believe I'm asking this....

.... But is there any recourse if Johnson doesn't comply with the Benn bill?

We'd have what, 12 days to sort it out?

Right wing authoritarian, left wing authoritarian = not much difference

how come all the suspicion about trumps involvement with putin

The Mueller Report, and many other investigations, found the Russian government put a lot effort into covertly influencing the 2016 US election. It muddied the waters in a variety of directions, focussing on disruptive issues, but the interventions were, net, pro-Trump.

How successful the Russian interventions were in tipping the election is, IIRC, still open to debate. If Trump behaved differently, we might be saying the Russians tried but don't have any real current influence.

But Trump has repeatedly says he believes Putin over his own intelligence officers. He invited senior Russian officials into the Oval Office and the first the American people heard of it was from the Russian press. While there, he blabbed intelligence to them that the US had received from another country. He has pulled his punches on international measures to reign in Russian aggression.

X post with Songs

Coalition Mark II with the Lib Dems for 5 years, Leavers told to go fuck themselves, Corbyn locked out. Sounds good to me!

And what's the compensating control if the LibDems say "fuck you" first ? I can imagine such a possibility not even bothering Boris hair, let alone what passes for a brain, but surely someone at Mount Doom Tory HQ might consider it ?

Clash City

Mandatory injunction from the HC requiring him to do it.

Or
Amendment of the Benn Act to allow the Speaker (or someone else) to request the extension in the name of Parliament if the PM refuses to comply with the law.

And, obvs, Russia interference in EU referendum; hoping to destroy EU, create chaos etc.

how come all the suspicion about trumps involvement with putin

cui bono ?

I see politics as an almost closed circle. The left and right extremes are closer too each other than the centre

Thanks Chaz

Right wing authoritarian, left wing authoritarian = not much difference.

The political spectrum is circular, not linear. The only real difference between the far left and far right is the far left is much more top-down, where the far rght operates a kind of Neodarwinian chaos from which they believe the strong will prevail.

Sky News reporting man arrested at constituency office of Jess Phillips attempting forced entry shouting abuse.

Just heard on sky news that a man has been arrested outside Jess Philip's office. He was banging and shouting fascists. The staff had locked the door.