The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

Go BoJo!
Go BoJo!
Go BoJo!
Go BoJo!

So near & yet so far..............

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

Parker Even by Leave MP's standards that recording is excruciating. They are fucking clueless and people are still cheerleading these idiots while looking over their shoulders for someone else to blame.

DH losing job at Christmas, not much else out there at the moment. Thanks a lot you lot!

They have no interest in alternative arrangements.

Nor do the border communities in Northern Ireland?

If a border is created, people will die there. And that's what you want.

frumpety did you not realise the EU is simultaneously forcing us into leaving with no deal on October 31st by being so nasty yet denying us leaving on October 31st with no deal because of the Surrender Bill?

However, I don’t understand the EU response posted above.

They say it needs further work, but then they go on to say that the backstop can’t be replaced with “untested arrangements” (impossible, since there are literally no arrangements that have been tested).

So, which is it? It can be tweaked and worked on, or it’s a complete non-starter?

The EU are trying to be diplomatic by getting Leavers to acknowledge the point which is blindingly obvious to everyone else in the world - there is no alternative to the backstop.

The fact there’s no viable solution is the whole reason it is needed. At some point Leavers need to accept this if a deal is to be done.

The EU outright saying the backstop can never ever change just plays into BJs hands and winds Leavers up,

But if we were serious about finding the solution we’d never need the backstop so it’s a moot point.

The fact is the backstop is an excuse for not conceding this whole thing hasn’t worked out at all well and it turns out we’re not that special after all.

Have they also not realised that the state of politics in this country is such that actually nothing would now get a majority. Its all about party campaigning for an imaginary (date TBC by JC when it’s convenient for him)) election on Brexit ideals ranging from Labours bespoke cake and eat it to Lib Dem’s let’s not bother at all.

I think the EU would be doing us a favour by not extending tbh.

Sadly, I’ve long since agreed with this.

No deal is the only option now.

BJ has set it up so it’s all the EUs fault and no deal is ‘the will of the people’ so he thinks no one will blame him when not if, it goes to rat shit, as he knows it will.

Continuity - what have the EU done which is’nasty’? The EU aren’t preventing the UK leaving as a result of the Benn Bill - that is to prevent Boris doing a stupid no deal exit.

If a border is created, people will die there. And that's what you want.

Yeah, but the big boys made us do it... None of this is our fault etc etc.

parker just read the responses on here about the “nasty EU” and the “surrender bill”. It’s like a Schrödinger’s EU.

BJ has set it up so it’s all the EUs fault and no deal is ‘the will of the people’ so he thinks no one will blame him when not if, it goes to rat shit, as he knows it will.

It is unlikely that the 48% who did not vote for this will have the wool pulled over their eyes. Neither will the majority of young people. Neither will the EU citizens who live in the UK and were unable to vote in the referendum. Nor the Leave voters who have changed their minds and are watching this shit-show with horror. If it's no deal, they will blame Johnson, his useless cabinet of arse-lickers, and all the Leavers-at-any-cost who are supporting this. Of course, this will be balanced by the Leavers whining that it was nothing to do with them/poor valiant Boris...

Until someone can explain to me how I will benefit from the UK being outside the EU, I’ll push for revoke and remain.

Until someone can explain to me how I will benefit from the UK being outside the EU, I’ll push for revoke and remain

People don’t have to explain their choice of vote. That’s why secret ballot was introduced in the 1800s.

I’ve no interest in anyone’s choice at the ballot box but would like to know from a leaver what the benefits are in leaving. It’s impossible to be positive about something where there are no benefits only disasters.

In todays FT and Sky News. The outgoing head of th. European Central Bank, Mr Draghi (described as Dracula by Germans for bleeding them dry) has predicted that the Eurozone won't survive unless there is a central EU budget. Macron agrees. The nation state is seen as increasingly irrelevant, and it is thought that non-Eurozone countries in the EU will be strongarmed into joining.

From the Sky News article:

Mr Draghi pointed out in his FT interview, is that there needs to be a common eurozone budget.

He said: "Given the inherent weakness of national states in a globalised world, what matters is to make the union stronger.

"In some areas, further integration achieves this goal. To have a stronger EMU [economic and monetary union], we need a common eurozone budget.

"Clearly the political debate on that still has a long way to go. But I am optimistic."

Mr Draghi is likely to be backed by the likes of the French president, Emmanuel Macron, who has previously urged a common eurozone budget and for fiscal transfers between eurozone members.

From later in the article :

(Non-eurozone EU countries) 'will naturally worry about a loss of influence - and may even find themselves being strong-armed into joining the single currency themselves.'

Looking at the bigger picture, perhaps some reasons why we will be better off out?

I will never forget Obama's words when the 2016 result was announced. He said it was simply a 'hiccup on the way to a full federal European state'. It was chilling.

I’ve no interest in anyone’s choice at the ballot box but would like to know from a leaver what the benefits are in leaving

Numerous threads on MN whereby remain supporters have tried to get leave supporters to explain why they voted leave. They were all a waste of time and effort in trying to get people to change their minds.

Three years have passed since the referendum and there is no evidence that there is a shift of the 406-410 constituencies that voted leave.

A second referendum and general election has been ruled as opposition know they will lose. Conservative and Brexit party combined will get the most seats at a general election.

And that was the same Obama that said fully in Europe, Britain has every chance to remain America’s preferred and privileged partner. Marginalized from the EU, Britain could find itself less influential in Washington as well?

Parker if you are so interested in influencing the votes of others why don't you obtain British citizenship so you can actually vote yourself?

Incomprehensible to me that you would invest so much of your life in the choices the country you live in makes and choose not to have a say.

Numerous threads on MN whereby remain supporters have tried to get leave supporters to explain why they voted leave. They were all a waste of time and effort in trying to get people to change their minds.

I think when people are so anti EU and so determined to take away my rights, it is not unreasonable to ask why?

Especially as post vote polling has shown, overwhelmingly, that the result was more of a kick against the UK Govt than against the EU.

I have no interest in changing anyone's mind, if another vote was on the cards, then maybe but now its stable door!

So far all i've heard is "i don't like the ECJ because it stopped us deporting Abu Hamzah" whilst failing to appreciate he has been deported and it was the ECHR not ECJ.
The retort is then "it's the principal i don't like"

@howabout - I’ll never give up my citizenship - would you? I know I’m lucky that I have EU citizenship. Obviously I’m concerned about Brexit - I’ve lived in the UK since I was five. My DC’s were born here and are at Uni here. Brexit affects us!

Until someone can explain to me how I will benefit from the UK being outside the EU, I’ll push for revoke and remain.

parker surely, after 3 years, you should have realised that that is never going to happen.

Leavers can’t explain the benefits but they still want to leave.

Remainers have been unsuccessful in convincing them otherwise and we’ve pretty much destroyed politics in the process.

Continually badgering Leavers to explain the benefits is now completely pointless.

As is refusing to accept no deal is the most likely outcome now.

twofingers none of the groups you mentioned would vote Tory anyway - all BJ cares about is remaining in power. He doesn’t give a shit who blames him for what if they’re not going to vote for him anyway.

I think when people are so anti EU and so determined to take away my rights, it is not unreasonable to ask why

All votes are cast in secret. Nothing on the ballot paper that said you must give a reason for your choice.

Also nothing on the ballot paper that said those on the winning side must identify themselves and answer all questions from the losing side.

Also nothing on the ballot paper that said if those in the winning side do not answer all questions by those on the losing side, then the result shall be declared void.

Especially as post vote polling has shown, overwhelmingly, that the result was more of a kick against the UK Govt than against the EU

Did not know that the 33.5 Million who voted had all been polled?

Whether vote was a kick against UK or telling EU to go away does not change the vote. After hearing from both sides of the campaign those that voted leave thought it was better than remain.

Leavers can’t explain the benefits but they still want to leave

They don’t have to explain their decision.

Remain have been unsuccessful in convincing them otherwise and we’ve pretty much destroyed politics in the process

Exactly. Watch the UK go up in smoke if there is no Brexit. Logic would be if government/parliament can ignore a vote, then persons in the street can ignore law.

As is refusing to accept no deal is the most likely outcome now

Yes. Remain MPs who voted against the WA in hope Brexit would go away still haven’t worked out;

No WA = No deal