The Brexit Arms

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Go BoJo!
Go BoJo!
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So near & yet so far..............

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@dirtyrottenscoundrel - why do you feel closer aligned to America than the EU? I wouldn’t have thought that was something to aspire to? Most of us from mainland Europe learnt English as soon as we started school and more than half are fluent in English.

Sorry bell, no.

It's pointless. The more I see posts the more sure I am...

I'm sorry you think it's pointless @Imnotthrowingawaymyshot . I still believe we can work out an NI specific option that saves GFA and allows an orderly Brexit. Because No Deal is unconscionable.
And I'm a general prepper with a right to an Irish passport if we don't (dd and dh also entitled to an Irish passport) so I can cope if we don't get an orderly Brexit. But I don't want to "cope". I want us to get to the other side of this with something positive for our country. And I know for sure that people will suffer if we don't because Yellowhammer- which is less than 3 months old- says we will. It is only the base case. Not the worst case scenario.
Right now we are tearing each other apart and we are a laughing stock for the rest of the world.

What could become a dreadful reality

apple.news/AfLyJMtE1Q36AHv37k1KGlA

I've been out too Dusty so just catching up. Problem with any time limited transitional arrangement is that it just moves the cliff edge. 3 years of non-negotiation have clearly demonstrated that.

What I think is pointless is you berating leavers thinking that us chewing the fat on here will change anything at all. Or that you will change any leavers mind

I don't think... Out in the real world, people with power trying to sort this out is pointless.

Parker231

I suppose growing up in the 70’s nearly all my cultural influences, ( obviously apart from UK influences ) were American ( from the TV ) or West Indian from my neighbourhood.
I can’t honestly remember any European influences at all.
Everything ‘cool’ was American, ( I know I know, silly really ) all the best music came from the UK or America, all the best films, TV, the best Actors, ......you name it, all the best stuff was coming out of UK or the U.S.
and if I’m totally honest, it I think it still does, in terms of music anyway.
And humour. Europeans have a totally different sense of humour.
So I guess I’ve always felt more connected to America than say, Spain.

Although ABBA & A-Ha were good.

dirtyrottenscoundrel I was surprised by your comment that "we’ve always had so much more in common with America."

Apart from the fact that Americans speak a similar (but definitely not the same!) language to us, I feel that we have very little in common with the USA.
When I went to live there in my late 20s/early 30s I was astonished by how very" foreign" it felt. Nothing felt familiar, not even the language actually, as I struggled to make myself understood on many occasions.
I find Americans, as a people, to be quite childlike in many ways. They are very black and white in their views on many issues, they're ludicrously over-patriotic (encouraged and exacerbated by the incessant flag waving and pledge of allegiance reciting). Americans are also very insular: most of those that I came into contact with had never ventured out of their own country and had very little idea of what other countries are like. We Europeans are much more outward looking, I think.

We Europeans are much more outward looking

Yes, I think you’re probably right.

@Imnotthrowingawaymyshot please your fucking self.

I agree with LonelyCrab, there was nothing democratic about the referendum. The way it was conducted was shameful and took lying to new heights. The fact that it was advisory, then treated as binding, but can't be declared null and void because it's advisory (as Bellini explains above) is beyond a joke. If that's mystery's idea of 'democratic' that says a lot about him - and about the others who cling to their 'will of the people' rhetoric. What is sickening about mystery spouting on about the wonders of Brexit is that he won't suffer as he's not in the UK. Maybe he'll even make a few bob out of it, eh?

Dusty No matter how much you think the losing vote should win
That's not what I think at all. We've had 3 years of 'respecting the referendum result' and look where we are: staring down both barrels of 'no deal', with the country divided. Even you admit that a soft Brexit would have been the best outcome for all, but that was never countenanced, thanks to the intransigence of TM, the ERG and the leavers who wanted it good and hard. Now, however, your position seems to have shifted to accepting no deal, along with the other 'but we won...' people, who can't even articulate what they won. Brexit is a cult now, with the 'winners' applauding charlatans like BJ, while his own family publicly speak of their doubts about his integrity.
What is wrong with putting it back to the people, now that we've had more than three years of squabbling and no real progress? None of the Leavers on this thread has adequately explained why 'the people' should not have an opportunity to speak now, which only confirms my belief that they know the outcome would be very, very different.

It's more fun trotting out bullshit than actually thinking about compromise.

Problem with any time limited transitional arrangement is that it just moves the cliff edge. 3 years of non-negotiation have clearly demonstrated that.

Howabout - I suppose I'm really just feeling hopeful that a GE will give a much needed clear-out of the current stasis & a fresh new Parliament session can allow MPs to dial down the intransigence that has dogged this session & give them the impetus to finally work together

I agree with many of the remainers on here that Theresa May's initial attitude was a major cause of MPs 'digging in' & put them off cooperation

We've had 3 years of 'respecting the referendum result' and look where we are: staring down both barrels of 'no deal', with the country divided

Twofingers - whilst I agree with what you said re TM, ERG etc, I disagree with the above.
We've not had 3 years of 'respecting the result', we've had 3 years of people trying to nullify the result.
The 'losers' have to accept Brexit has got to happen, and the 'winners' have got to accept that the result was too close to give a mandate to a complete break.

What is wrong with putting it back to the people, now that we've had more than three years of squabbling and no real progress?

What is wrong is that the 1st ref has not been enacted. If Remain won on a lesser % (turnout & majority) then it would be undemocratic to overturn the bigger mandate of 2016.

Putting the current WA to the people would also be daft as it's just a WA, not a 'deal'

It's more fun trotting out bullshit than actually thinking about compromise.

And this is my problem with our current MPs in this Parliament.

Many are more interested in soundbites, pursuing their own ideology (hard Brexit or anti Brexit) & playing party politics than actually working together.

As I've said repeatedly on here, it dies not matter a toss what you, i, or anyone else on MN says or thinks - it is only our MPs that can effect an outcome.

We've not had 3 years of 'respecting the result', we've had 3 years of people trying to nullify the result

Well with the erg supplied red lines TM bound herself by, there was little prospect of a way forward apart from the WA. Those red lines were her doing- no one else’s. Leave campaign said these would be the easiest deals in history, they were wrong. Turns out cake doesn’t exist. Now if you view that as mps scuppering Brexit that’s your choice but it’s just more of you attempting to twist the truth as far as I can see.

The 'losers' have to accept Brexit has got to happen, and the 'winners' have got to accept that the result was too close to give a mandate to a complete break.

I can accept that we leave. I want to leave on terms that don’t damage our country though, in an orderly manner. What I can’t accept is no deal and I will always fight against it.

It seems that many leavers now will only accept no deal, this is the rhetoric being stirred up by no10 so surely that shows there is far less compromise happening on the leave side.

Well with the erg supplied red lines TM bound herself by, there was little prospect of a way forward apart from the WA. Those red lines were her doing- no one else’s.

I've already agreed that TM's approach was a major factor & suggested an alternative approach to the WA when asked to on here

Leave campaign said these would be the easiest deals in history, they were wrong. Turns out cake doesn’t exist.

A 'deal' had not even been attempted yet
Only the WA.

Now if you view that as mps scuppering Brexit that’s your choice but it’s just more of you attempting to twist the truth as far as I can see.

I have never attempted to 'twist the truth' - I have been straightforward and honest.
We may view the same events in different ways, but that does not equate to 'twisting the truth' which infers deliberate dishonesty on my part.

MPs are the ones who are blocking progress. Thus is fact.

Oh and Matthew Coats- the DG for Brexit implementation has just quit.

Why do you think that might be everyone?

MPs are the ones who are blocking progress. Thus is fact.

Dunno. Democracy?😀

Thank you belle. I will. I am not suffering from delusions of grandeur and power, that chatting to you will change you into a leaver and more than that I have no desire to do so!!

I am not deluded into thinking that us chatting here is Any more than just that.
I'm only acutely aware how pleasant this thread would be sans usual aggressive bores.

I don't think I feel closer to us than Europe.

I adore Europe, the different cultures, films.. Authors...

I'm fond of some American culture but America is surely a large melting pot of Europe??

Nice use of French.

While your on such a chatty crusade for anti aggression, are you going to condemn Farage for saying we should knife civil servants?
He's your boy? Is that ok for you?

twitter.com/nfutweets/status/1177599489709940741?s=21

Impact of a no deal on farmers

Was that letter parker posted at 11.05 for real?

There weren’t any comments about it.

It’s unbelievable.

How can Leavers actually defend that?