Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: The Non Re-Opening Of Parliament

989 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 19:40

Parliament will reconvene tomorrow, at 11.30am, as if proroguation never happened as the Supreme Court ruled that the government acted outside the limits of its power and this was therefore unlawful.

The most senior court in the UK has ruled unaminously to defend Parliamentary Sovereignity and the Rule of British Law.

Unusually for a Wednesday there will be no PMQ, however there will be time for Ministerial Statements, UQ and Debate under S024.
See the abbreviation thread if you are struggling with these

So tomorrow is sure to be explosive on way or another.

The Government is hitting back by questioning the Supreme Court whilst also saying they respect the Supreme Court's authority. This is an oxymoron. Its being done for political reasons and is, in its own way, a direct threat to the Rule of Law.

Robert Buckland is, again, having to do a lot in Cabinet to assert the point of the importance of the Rule of Law and how it prevents mob rule. Something that seems to keep getting forgotten by anonymous No 10 sources.

The political fallout from the ruling is sure to lead to calls for the Supreme Court to be politically elected. This has been a long term goal of parts of the hard right.

Johnson, is currently in the US, so the announcement that parliament will be back tomorrow has rather spoilt his jolly to see his mate Donnie. He will have to get on a plane smartish.

But for all the hard talk there will also be ramifications for Johnson. Whilst there will be a lot of 'nothing has changed', and there is no chance of a VoNC in the HoC being tabled by the opposition whilst no deal is still on the table on the 31st Oct, there will still be problems for Johnson.

There will be a post mortem within his own party. The next Cabinet Meeting will almost certainly be explosive. There are already attempts to set Geoffrey Cox, the Attorney General who apparently advised that proroguation was lawful, under the bus as the fall guy. This will perhaps be a deflection to try and protect Dominic Cummings, as there will be moderate Tories who will seek to use this as an opportunity to have him sacked. But more than this, its likely to result in other Cabinet Ministers being more forceful and to challenge Johnson more, both for their own political gain and for their own political protection. He will certainly be more questioned from within, about his poor judgement.

We also have him facing an investigation from the London Assembly over his conduct and suggestions of an inappropriate relationship with a busty blonde American woman.

Next weeks Conservative Party Conference is now in tatters. Whilst Corbyn has wrapped up the Labour Party Conference early to avoid a clash with Parliament being open, Johnson is stuffed. Next week's PMQ will clash with the schedule for his Party Speech. Normally parliament would be in recess for the conference season, but parliament has to vote to allow this. And there isn't a majority for the Conservatives to now be able to do this. So Parliament almost certainly will be sitting next week.

Unfortunately, the Tories are a little stuffed with their conference being held in Manchester. If (and lets face it, with the gloves off and time short) the opposition want to cause mischief, they will try and schedule crucial and embarassing debates during the party conference, to keep MPs stuck in Westminister as much as possible. And with good reason under the circumstances.

We still have the small matter of the 31st October deadline which Johnson is still sticking to saying we will either have a deal or we will leave without a deal - unlawfully.

Remember on that note, Johnson has already acted beyond his power and unlawfully on the basis of bad advice. Johnson being hulk, rather than a girly swat, relies on the advice of others more heavily than his own wisdom and experience - of which he has been exposed time and again - to be somewhat lacking in.

As a side note, its also worth reflecting on the NCA having dropped charges in relation to Leave.Eu and how the Electoral Commission has commented on this decision:
"We are concerned about the apparent weakness in the law, highlighted by this investigation outcome, which allows overseas funds into UK politics. We have made recommendations that would tighten the rules on campaign funding and deter breaches. We urge the UK's governments to act on those recommendations to support voter confidence"

In the context of an imminent General Election, this is really very concerning indeed.

Just WHO is in control? Cos it doesn't look like its Boris Johnson right now, thats for sure.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
JuliaCheeser · 25/09/2019 00:15

I wonder if JRM asks for the SO 24?

JeSuisPoulet · 25/09/2019 00:16

Missed a whole thread, filled fast with bots lawyers who oddly seem to find it hard to write without being overly dramatic Hmm.

I read what I could be bothered to Grin
My money is on Cox going and vengefully dialing his gammon explosion OUTRAGE on those in No10 - CumFace is my guess - for twisting his role.

It's not going to be Saj, they're saving that sacrificial lamb for post ND - the one who "worked it all out wrong" and it'll be "his fault we have rationing" etc, etc.

JeSuisPoulet · 25/09/2019 00:18

Just had a horrible thought - BoZo can't demand the Queen "tell it like it is" or something, turning opinion on her on the tailspin of the judiciary? If she refuses it works against her...

Peregrina · 25/09/2019 00:20

If Boris Johnson resigns rather than signing the extension letter, are the opposition & Tory rebels willing to put a new Prime Minister in place to deliver this letter?

If not, parliament is dissolved & no deal Brexit couldn't be stopped

I'd hope they would have enough gumption to put up a caretaker PM. But gumption seems in short supply at the moment.

Tarchie · 25/09/2019 00:26

I’m so impressed with everyone’s knowledge of what (to me and many others) is a very confusing and worrying situation. Thanks especially to Red for your clear and comprehensive summaries. I’m place marking for tomorrow.

tobee · 25/09/2019 00:32

Place mark after having a delightfully Brexit free evening watching The Arsenal. Grin

JustAnotherPoster00 · 25/09/2019 00:33

I think it's about time they came up with a clear policy.

In the event of a Tory Deal/No Deal Labour will campaign for Remain

In the event of a Labour government Labour will re-negotiate a SM/CU deal and then give a PV on Lexit/Remain

Seems pretty clear unless your a Tory, LibDem MP or an MSM journalist

LarkDescending · 25/09/2019 00:45

It was suggested on Newsnight this evening that relevant people might be prepared to support Margaret Beckett as a caretaker PM. I was distracted and only half-listening, though.

I now see that this has already been mooted in The Spectator.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/09/2019 00:49

"In the event of a Tory Deal/No Deal Labour will campaign for Remain" Confused

Sorry poster00, my brain needs sleep, but do you mean if the Tories manage to Brexit before the GE that Labour would campaign for Rejoin ?
I'm sure he didn't say that, so I've probably misunderstood you

I thought that if Labour won the GE afterwards, then they would try to negotiate a closer future relationship with the EU, dropping Tory red lines, trying to protect jobs

but that if Tories win the GE then Labour would try to block any US FTA that could damage the NHS, UK food standards, workers rights etc.

borntobequiet · 25/09/2019 03:35

Can’t sleep, but happy to see that things not looking good for Trump either, according to the current thread.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3694330-Finding-a-way-through-the-avalanche-of-crazy-or-Trump-thread-96?pg=6
Is synchronicity the right word here?

thecatfromjapan · 25/09/2019 06:20

I really am getting tired with this, 'Labour doesn't have a clear policy,' thing.

Pause: A50 is extended; the WA & FPA is re-negotiated.

Renegotiate: Labour negotiates a 'safety net' Brexit - one that puts the vulnerable, jobs, healthcare first.

That matters: people need an actual, real Brexit to decide about - not a blank page onto which they project their pet fantasy.

You choose: 10:1 a lot of 'Leavers' won't like the model Labour comes out with. And that's fine. They can either vote for it, or against it.
Fact is, there's no one Brexit everyone will agree with.
That, right there, has been the issue that has destroyed every administration trying to push their Nrexit through.
You have to let the electorate choose, on a real - not fantasy - Brexit.
In a People's Vote.
That's what democracy looks like.
And we really need democracy right now.

NoWordForFluffy · 25/09/2019 06:27

I don't have a problem with Labour's Brexit policy really. They're in a bit of a shambles as a party, but I can't see a problem with them renegotiating (if possible) and then having a PV where they let the voters decide. Leavers can still vote leave, for a concrete plan (THIS is our version of Brexit), and remainers can vote remain. Winner takes all (super-majority?).

I'm Confused that people are confused by this.

bellinisurge · 25/09/2019 06:35

I think I get Labour's policy. But that is rather the point. The "binary choice but not until we've changed the parameters of the Brexit option ", isn't going to fly because it's too complicated. I know that Brexit is too complicated and needs a reset with clearer and less catastrophic options. But I'm not sure enough people will support that at this stage. You already have to get past the whole Marmite thing with Corbyn.

NoWordForFluffy · 25/09/2019 06:37

Can't stand Corbyn! But, I might still tactically vote for them in a GE to oust our ex-Asda Tory boy who's inserted so far up BoZo's arse, I'm surprised he can see daylight.

QueenOfThorns · 25/09/2019 07:09

The "binary choice but not until we've changed the parameters of the Brexit option ", isn't going to fly because it's too complicated.

And this is the problem right here. Our society has become so dumbed down that ‘let’s get an actual Brexit deal to vote on’ is supposedly too complicated. It’s really, really not that difficult to comprehend, unless you listen to the MSM telling you that it is. Hmm

lonelyplanetmum · 25/09/2019 07:12

Regarding Labour's Brexit policy a Mum I know is a Labour Party research person who has worked with a Labour MP for years. In 2016 after the ref I asked about the LP strategy afterwards and she said that they'll just monitor and follow trends in public opinion so reflecting that and staying one small step ahead. That seems to have been borne out ...gradually shifting position towards a PV etc.

But on other stuff like sequestration of private schools, and providing elderly social care - they seem more prepared to lead from the front.

QuentinWinters · 25/09/2019 07:19

I would vote labour on their brexit policy ( and I'm a remainiac Lib Dem member). I think it's the only helpful way forward.

Unfortunately though the rest of their manifesto is barking. Free education for everyone, for the whole of their life?? Public ownership of everything?? Full employment rights from day 1? Its proper magic money tree territory.

It's a proper bind actually.

Lisette1940 · 25/09/2019 07:23

Pmk

cherin · 25/09/2019 07:28

quentin except that we all know it’s not going to happen? Surely not even if they get a full 5 year in government? The radical stuff they mention is going to take half a lifetime if we’re honest. Particularly as, even if we leave with the softest brexit possible (and I still think we’ll leave somehow) the economy is going to take a hit. Smaller than the hit of a hard brexit but the moment is just not there to buy trains and schools and all that stuff

RedToothBrush · 25/09/2019 07:31

David Allen Green@davidallengreen
Brexiter trashing of independent domestic institutions - judiciary, parliament, civil service - tells against any sincere belief in "taking back control"

Instead, it is populist nationalist authoritarianism

Arbitrary government on the back of "the will of the people"

Dangerous

Well yes.

Tamara Cohen @tamcohen
Ed Vaizey on @SkyNews: “I don’t think people like me want the PM to resign.” Says it’s irrelevant.

But says Jacob Rees-Mogg “hardened the rebellion” against the PM and he will be looking to see whether the Leader of the House displays some humility

Remember Mogg's last speech so enraged a few wavering moderates that he was the deciding factor in them rebelling and subsequently getting the whip removed.

Last night he went to the press in open defiance of the PM's line out of NY about respecting the courts.

And he's the one doing the 11.30am ministerial address. You know the one where you'd expect the government to be calming things down.

I'll put money on him pouring petrol on an already volitile situation and enraging thinks further in order to further his culture war ambitions.

I'm not expecting his speech to be one of a reconciliary tone. To put it mildly.

By 1pm I suspect there will be lots of very angry tweets.

OP posts:
Hoooo · 25/09/2019 07:31

I'm not sure that, even with the good news from the US, the tide of hate and xenophobia that trump and Brexit have released into the MS will ever now go away did it ever?

Like the US, we are a deeply divided country, and promoting/chasing policies of isolationism...and sonce since when did those 2 things ever end well?

RedToothBrush · 25/09/2019 07:37

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-the-uk-supreme-court-decision-the-humiliation-of-boris-johnson-1.4029068?mode=amp
The Irish Times view on the UK supreme court decision: the humiliation of Boris Johnson

A devastating judgment has left the British prime minister backed into a corner, his options narrowing and his time running out

This is not the work of a shrewd strategist. Boris Johnson, it is painfully clear, is winging it.

OP posts:
thecatfromjapan · 25/09/2019 07:38

JRM really creates a UK that is horrible to live in.

He doesn't just work to create it, at some point in the future.

He creates it, right here, in the here and now.

Sad
RedToothBrush · 25/09/2019 07:40

I'm very very cautious about the impeachment news.

There are at least a dozen impeachable offences that trump could have been done for. The republicans don't want to go there as he suits their culture war and the Democrats have been hesitate.

I fear this could backfire on the Democrats and I fear we could see real trouble in the US either way.

Trump won't go quietly...

OP posts:
thecatfromjapan · 25/09/2019 07:43

By the way, I've seen on Twitter that 'Best for Britain' have produced a really lovely little app. That makes it easy to send a tweet (or email/FB post) asking your MP to apply pressure, now, to extend A50.

It's excellent, imho, so please look out for it and use it.