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Brexit

Westministenders: The Non Re-Opening Of Parliament

989 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 19:40

Parliament will reconvene tomorrow, at 11.30am, as if proroguation never happened as the Supreme Court ruled that the government acted outside the limits of its power and this was therefore unlawful.

The most senior court in the UK has ruled unaminously to defend Parliamentary Sovereignity and the Rule of British Law.

Unusually for a Wednesday there will be no PMQ, however there will be time for Ministerial Statements, UQ and Debate under S024.
See the abbreviation thread if you are struggling with these

So tomorrow is sure to be explosive on way or another.

The Government is hitting back by questioning the Supreme Court whilst also saying they respect the Supreme Court's authority. This is an oxymoron. Its being done for political reasons and is, in its own way, a direct threat to the Rule of Law.

Robert Buckland is, again, having to do a lot in Cabinet to assert the point of the importance of the Rule of Law and how it prevents mob rule. Something that seems to keep getting forgotten by anonymous No 10 sources.

The political fallout from the ruling is sure to lead to calls for the Supreme Court to be politically elected. This has been a long term goal of parts of the hard right.

Johnson, is currently in the US, so the announcement that parliament will be back tomorrow has rather spoilt his jolly to see his mate Donnie. He will have to get on a plane smartish.

But for all the hard talk there will also be ramifications for Johnson. Whilst there will be a lot of 'nothing has changed', and there is no chance of a VoNC in the HoC being tabled by the opposition whilst no deal is still on the table on the 31st Oct, there will still be problems for Johnson.

There will be a post mortem within his own party. The next Cabinet Meeting will almost certainly be explosive. There are already attempts to set Geoffrey Cox, the Attorney General who apparently advised that proroguation was lawful, under the bus as the fall guy. This will perhaps be a deflection to try and protect Dominic Cummings, as there will be moderate Tories who will seek to use this as an opportunity to have him sacked. But more than this, its likely to result in other Cabinet Ministers being more forceful and to challenge Johnson more, both for their own political gain and for their own political protection. He will certainly be more questioned from within, about his poor judgement.

We also have him facing an investigation from the London Assembly over his conduct and suggestions of an inappropriate relationship with a busty blonde American woman.

Next weeks Conservative Party Conference is now in tatters. Whilst Corbyn has wrapped up the Labour Party Conference early to avoid a clash with Parliament being open, Johnson is stuffed. Next week's PMQ will clash with the schedule for his Party Speech. Normally parliament would be in recess for the conference season, but parliament has to vote to allow this. And there isn't a majority for the Conservatives to now be able to do this. So Parliament almost certainly will be sitting next week.

Unfortunately, the Tories are a little stuffed with their conference being held in Manchester. If (and lets face it, with the gloves off and time short) the opposition want to cause mischief, they will try and schedule crucial and embarassing debates during the party conference, to keep MPs stuck in Westminister as much as possible. And with good reason under the circumstances.

We still have the small matter of the 31st October deadline which Johnson is still sticking to saying we will either have a deal or we will leave without a deal - unlawfully.

Remember on that note, Johnson has already acted beyond his power and unlawfully on the basis of bad advice. Johnson being hulk, rather than a girly swat, relies on the advice of others more heavily than his own wisdom and experience - of which he has been exposed time and again - to be somewhat lacking in.

As a side note, its also worth reflecting on the NCA having dropped charges in relation to Leave.Eu and how the Electoral Commission has commented on this decision:
"We are concerned about the apparent weakness in the law, highlighted by this investigation outcome, which allows overseas funds into UK politics. We have made recommendations that would tighten the rules on campaign funding and deter breaches. We urge the UK's governments to act on those recommendations to support voter confidence"

In the context of an imminent General Election, this is really very concerning indeed.

Just WHO is in control? Cos it doesn't look like its Boris Johnson right now, thats for sure.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
Peregrina · 24/09/2019 23:24

PMK. Have just spent two hours catching up.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2019 23:24

"But the people who brought the base don’t give a monkeys about Parliament"

WRONG

Politicians like John Major care very deeply about Parliament
and would accept a Brexit that Parliament agrees to

prettybird · 24/09/2019 23:25

It means Place Marking - which an autocarrot changed to Place Mat King for someone. The variants developed from that with Place Cat King and the cat photos followed Wink

We need a bit of feline calming light relief on these threads Smile*
*

  • Other pets and animals are available Wink
prettybird · 24/09/2019 23:26

Oops Lurpak - I just re-read your post and twigged the sarcasm Blush

LurpakIsTheOnlyButter · 24/09/2019 23:27

**JRM taking questions tomorrow and not Johnson.

From a supine position, one presumes**

I actually roared laughing 😀😀😀

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 23:29

He seems to ignore that treating the prorogation as a completely political matter would also have had consequences - both creating a precedent and delegitimising the Brexit process in the eyes of the many, many people who are not supporters of the current government.

Absolutely.

How do end this without some sort of unrest?

No deal - nope too risky
Remain - unfortunately unlikely due to Brexiteer militancy
A deal - depends on deal and upset everyone.

We had opportunities for least worst exit along the way, but they weren't taken and things ramped up a notch.

Every time we have days like today things ramp up another notch.

I find it hard as I am genuinely relieved at todays ruling but it also fills me with rising fear too.

No one is acting to calm things down, only to ramp up more and more.

Without a 'peace maker' emerging, I do wonder where this is headed. Things have to come to a head at some point, because of the brick wall of reality and an exit date.

OP posts:
prettybird · 24/09/2019 23:30

Just for you Lurpak Grin

Westministenders: The Non Re-Opening Of Parliament
JustAnotherPoster00 · 24/09/2019 23:31

But neither of the two big parties is really attempting to coalesce the middle ground

Id argue that Labour is currently the only party that is trying to coalesce both sides of the Brexit argument, that its not about whether you voted Leave or Remain but more about wanting a fairer society for the 99%, its a bit glib I know but its no surprise that I agree, and its also why I have more contempt for Tory voters (in general not specifically) than I do with Leave voters

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 23:34

Steven Swinford@steven_swinford
Boris Johnson tonight asked Cabinet ministers if the Government could use the SO24 process to request an emergency debate on a general election tomorrow

It's a sign of just how much the Govt has lost its grip on Parliament - it is now looking to adopt the tactics of the rebels

OP posts:
chomalungma · 24/09/2019 23:36

I would love to ask Leave voters what they expect to be different if we leave the EU.

As has been mentioned, it was not a massive thing for most people a few years ago. Immigration doesn't seem to be making the headlines like it used to.

So what will be different if we leave ? Will all this be worth it to get the goal of leaving?

JuliaCheeser · 24/09/2019 23:37
Shock
BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2019 23:44

red Has a govt ever used an SO24 before ? Confused
I can't remember it

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2019 23:46

To get an emergency debate, at least
A govt just calls them if it wants !

A reminder that a minority govt without adequate C&S can't even control Commons business

merrymouse · 24/09/2019 23:49

Id argue that Labour is currently the only party that is trying to coalesce both sides of the Brexit argument, that its not about whether you voted Leave or Remain but more about wanting a fairer society for the 99%

They aren't trying to coalesce anything though. They are just reserving judgment till a later date. Bearing in mind that the referendum happened over 3 years ago I think it's about time they came up with a clear policy.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2019 23:49

Narked, from Brussels:

Fabian Zuleeg@FabianZuleeg (European Policy Centre, Brussels)

To all Brexiteers that reacted by claiming the 'undemocratic' EU somehow twisted the UK constitution:

your level of delusion is astonishing.

It was a decision by the UK Supreme Court based on the UK constitution
on something that was done by the UK government to the UK parliament

RosinaAlmaviva · 24/09/2019 23:54

I find it hard as I am genuinely relieved at todays ruling but it also fills me with rising fear too.

I was in central London all day where the weather seemed to have been ordained by the constitutional gods. Thunder, lightning and the heavens opening. It was cathartic and alarming at the same time.

motherofdoodles · 24/09/2019 23:55

Just lounging here, pmk for tomorrow...

Westministenders: The Non Re-Opening Of Parliament
LouiseCollins28 · 24/09/2019 23:56

Here is a list of SO 24 debates held in each session.

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04569/SN04569.pdf

David Cameron’s one in 2013 on a Royal Charter for press conduct is the only obvious example I can see of the government using one.

prettybird · 24/09/2019 23:56

But BigChoc Wink - we were mansplained told on the last thread that the Supreme Court was an EU institution, imposed on the UK by the EU Shock

Are you suggesting that that's not true? Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2019 23:58

Ah, thanks, louise 💐
Well found

pretty Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 25/09/2019 00:00

Their cartoon nails it

Financial Times@FinancialTimes

Where does this leave Boris Johnson?

Apart from the immediate political damage of the result,
the UK PM now faces the problem that he may struggle to use prorogation again as a tool to sideline MPs,
if he decides to push for a no-deal Brexit on October 31

www.ft.com/content/c1ae7f0c-8bca-39b5-91a5-02a1a9494732

Westministenders: The Non Re-Opening Of Parliament
prettybird · 25/09/2019 00:02

It could be argued that all business this week, other than the standard Cabinet stints/Ministerial statements at the dispatch box, would need to be under SO24 as the Leader of the House through his own unlawful act didn't present this week's programme last week. Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 25/09/2019 00:06

UK govt really scraping the bottom of the barrel here, but at least legally, if embarassingly:

Brigid Laffan@BrigidLaffan

Across Europe & @EuroparlEN, #UK officials spinning against #Ireland-will not work.

Ireland is a remaining state,* UK is the state that sent UKIP & Brexit party to EP*

This kind of activity does nothing for U.K. reputation

=====

Billy Kelleher MEP@BillyKelleherEU

Strategic briefings by #UK Officials in @EuroparlEN #Brussels that Ireland has most to lose in no deal #Brexit

also saying UK is a member of #NATO and is a friend of Europe and willing to defend it where as Ireland is Neutral and would not defend it
@TodaySOR @fiannafailparty

JuliaCheeser · 25/09/2019 00:10

H of C Standing Orders here:
publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmstords/0002/body.htm#24
.
SO 24 never used re a GE election to my recollection, but may be wrong. SO were revised under present Speaker.

SO 24 could be done by a Tory MP (JRM) giving notice prior, if Speaker refuses, it could then be challenged if 40 others rise in support. Speaker decides time of debate though. Could be AFTER other business is dealt with, it would not be immediate debate necessarily.
Interested to hear other views.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/09/2019 00:11

Yep, this possible tactic has been worrying me for weeks

Have the rebels agreed on anyone ?

  • reports are that 19 of the 21 rebels won't vote for JC, in which case it can't be him

Fabian Zuleeg@FabianZuleeg

If Boris Johnson resigns rather than signing the extension letter, are the opposition & Tory rebels willing to put a new Prime Minister in place to deliver this letter?

If not, parliament is dissolved & no deal Brexit couldn't be stopped

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