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Brexit

Westministenders: The Non Re-Opening Of Parliament

989 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 19:40

Parliament will reconvene tomorrow, at 11.30am, as if proroguation never happened as the Supreme Court ruled that the government acted outside the limits of its power and this was therefore unlawful.

The most senior court in the UK has ruled unaminously to defend Parliamentary Sovereignity and the Rule of British Law.

Unusually for a Wednesday there will be no PMQ, however there will be time for Ministerial Statements, UQ and Debate under S024.
See the abbreviation thread if you are struggling with these

So tomorrow is sure to be explosive on way or another.

The Government is hitting back by questioning the Supreme Court whilst also saying they respect the Supreme Court's authority. This is an oxymoron. Its being done for political reasons and is, in its own way, a direct threat to the Rule of Law.

Robert Buckland is, again, having to do a lot in Cabinet to assert the point of the importance of the Rule of Law and how it prevents mob rule. Something that seems to keep getting forgotten by anonymous No 10 sources.

The political fallout from the ruling is sure to lead to calls for the Supreme Court to be politically elected. This has been a long term goal of parts of the hard right.

Johnson, is currently in the US, so the announcement that parliament will be back tomorrow has rather spoilt his jolly to see his mate Donnie. He will have to get on a plane smartish.

But for all the hard talk there will also be ramifications for Johnson. Whilst there will be a lot of 'nothing has changed', and there is no chance of a VoNC in the HoC being tabled by the opposition whilst no deal is still on the table on the 31st Oct, there will still be problems for Johnson.

There will be a post mortem within his own party. The next Cabinet Meeting will almost certainly be explosive. There are already attempts to set Geoffrey Cox, the Attorney General who apparently advised that proroguation was lawful, under the bus as the fall guy. This will perhaps be a deflection to try and protect Dominic Cummings, as there will be moderate Tories who will seek to use this as an opportunity to have him sacked. But more than this, its likely to result in other Cabinet Ministers being more forceful and to challenge Johnson more, both for their own political gain and for their own political protection. He will certainly be more questioned from within, about his poor judgement.

We also have him facing an investigation from the London Assembly over his conduct and suggestions of an inappropriate relationship with a busty blonde American woman.

Next weeks Conservative Party Conference is now in tatters. Whilst Corbyn has wrapped up the Labour Party Conference early to avoid a clash with Parliament being open, Johnson is stuffed. Next week's PMQ will clash with the schedule for his Party Speech. Normally parliament would be in recess for the conference season, but parliament has to vote to allow this. And there isn't a majority for the Conservatives to now be able to do this. So Parliament almost certainly will be sitting next week.

Unfortunately, the Tories are a little stuffed with their conference being held in Manchester. If (and lets face it, with the gloves off and time short) the opposition want to cause mischief, they will try and schedule crucial and embarassing debates during the party conference, to keep MPs stuck in Westminister as much as possible. And with good reason under the circumstances.

We still have the small matter of the 31st October deadline which Johnson is still sticking to saying we will either have a deal or we will leave without a deal - unlawfully.

Remember on that note, Johnson has already acted beyond his power and unlawfully on the basis of bad advice. Johnson being hulk, rather than a girly swat, relies on the advice of others more heavily than his own wisdom and experience - of which he has been exposed time and again - to be somewhat lacking in.

As a side note, its also worth reflecting on the NCA having dropped charges in relation to Leave.Eu and how the Electoral Commission has commented on this decision:
"We are concerned about the apparent weakness in the law, highlighted by this investigation outcome, which allows overseas funds into UK politics. We have made recommendations that would tighten the rules on campaign funding and deter breaches. We urge the UK's governments to act on those recommendations to support voter confidence"

In the context of an imminent General Election, this is really very concerning indeed.

Just WHO is in control? Cos it doesn't look like its Boris Johnson right now, thats for sure.

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DeRigueurMortis · 24/09/2019 20:36

Re: the comment above about not reacting/posting in such a way as to make Leavers even more entrenched in their views....

Based on my contact with Leavers (mainly family) I'm not sure that's possible, simply because rather than being "just" entrenched, they've encased themselves in a reinforced concrete bunker....

I'm not suggesting they represent every Leave voter, but the best analogy I can come up with (for those I'm in contact with) is they are behaving like toddlers who have been promised a lolly, and currently having a tantrum on finding out it's not the flavour they wanted and they can't have it until after supper time.

The thing is, even amongst themselves they can't agree between strawberry and grape nor what time supper is held.

What they can agree on, is that anyone pointing out that lollies damage your teeth is lying and a big old meanie.

Belindabelle · 24/09/2019 20:36

I hope they have had enough time to restock the bars and kitchens at Westminster for tomorrow.

BoreOfWhabylon · 24/09/2019 20:39

Can the Queen dismiss a Prime Minister?

I recall that Sir John Kerr, the Governor-General of Australia (the Queen's representative), did so once

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Australian_constitutional_crisis

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2019 20:39

The polls are showing everything from a Tory landslide to a hung Parliament with Labour as the largest party

Depends partly on the questions polled, not just the usual differences in sampling & statistical weighting

This is why the Opposition is thinking so carefully about when and under what circumstances to allow a GE:
The rightwing vote gets split more if Brexit hasn't happened, especially if BJ is seen to have "given in" on a WA or an extension

Hasenstein · 24/09/2019 20:41

Breathless PMK. I hope this thread doesn't become too rancorous or full of barrack room lawyers, who seem to know how the law works in St. Petersburg, but not here.

I know neither, but then I don't pretend (in both senses of the word) to be a barrister.

flouncyfanny · 24/09/2019 20:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FMFL · 24/09/2019 20:42

PMK again!

Frankiestein402 · 24/09/2019 20:43

there are no positives to stay in the EU Institution
I know we're supposed to ignore the furrin agitators but as a bookmark;

  1. Access to a market amounting to more than 1/3rd of global gdp
  2. Influential member of a bloc that can talk to China, India and the US on equal terms
  3. Scale benefits - spreading costs of core agencies {euratom, ema, easa, gnss, etc) leveraging expertise from 27 countries
  4. FoM
flouncyfanny · 24/09/2019 20:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Horehound · 24/09/2019 20:44

Pmk

Hasenstein · 24/09/2019 20:46

Remember how we followed Patel's flight from Israel

I do remember Liverpool fans tracking Jürgen Klopp's flight into John Lennon Airport. At least that worked out well Grin

NoWordForFluffy · 24/09/2019 20:49

Flouncy, maximum sentence is life imprisonment. I can't find the actual sentencing guideline for it, possibly because it's a common law - rather than criminal - offence.

Interestingly, a review of the offence started in 2016 and the report is due in autumn this year. They were reviewing to see if they were going to abolish / replace / leave as is.

Does your DH watch Only Connect, flouncy?! (I feel very thick when we watch!)

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 20:51

Front pages are going to be fun tonight

Westministenders: The Non Re-Opening Of Parliament
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BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2019 20:53

iirc, there was no suggestion at the time that HMQ was even consulted in the dismissal of Whitlam - but Kerr himself appeared to take sides

We know HMQ avoids at all cost getting dragged into party politics
She'd be desperate to avoid any hint of taking sides in such a bitterly polarised fight,
especially when nihilists on one side are willing to destroy fundamental British institutions - which probablly includes the monarchy.

I'd expect her to stay under cover and only dismiss a PM if he goes as far as say sending the tanks around Pariament, or interning MPs and judges

kingsassassin · 24/09/2019 20:54

Some MPs are getting into the Ginalready... 

Ken Clarke

@MrKennethClarke

Someone please let me know when Parliament is recalled. You’ll find me down the Wig & Pen with John Major and eleven Supreme Court judges getting rat arsed. There will be a lock in, no proroguing here. Cheers!

Belindabelle · 24/09/2019 20:55

I don’t believe that Johnson could not get back to London sooner if he wanted. No10 must think that the optics look better without him at the Dispatch box. Well he can’t hide for ever and will have to appear in the Commons at some point.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2019 20:55

'Boris Bus' maker to crash into administration

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-bus-maker-to-crash-into-administration-11818680

Boris Johnson will face his second major private sector headache this week on Wednesday with the Northern Irish bus-maker Wrightbus poised to crash into administration.

BoreOfWhabylon · 24/09/2019 20:57

Thanks BCF, it's just that Kerr, as HM's representative had the power to dismiss the PM, so I wondered if HM also has the power. I suppose she must have, theoretically.

kingsassassin · 24/09/2019 20:58

On PM, the Tory MP was suggesting that the optics were BJ trying everything possible and impossible to get Brexit through by 31st and being stymied(!) at every turn by Corbyn, even though he says he wants to leave.

Unfortunately I think this could work very well. None of it will be BJ's fault and can shove it all off onto Corbyn...

DGRossetti · 24/09/2019 20:59

Seen elsewhere Hmm

Genuine call, to Farage, on LBC earlier;

MAN: “I just want to thank you Nigel, for all you’ve done for British politics. I was an ardent remainer. I voted remain. Until one moment that changed it all”

FARAGE: “Wow. And what was that moment?”

MAN: “I got kicked in the head by a horse.”

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 21:00

Tim Shipman**@shippersunbound**
Regardless of the final ruling the judges have already set us on the path to an American style Supreme Court. In future appointments will become highly politicised

David Allen Green*@davidallengreen*
This is not correct

The justices did the least they could, before handing the matter over to elected MPs in Westminster to sort out

US judges can overrule Congress - UK judges instead give powers back to Westminster

As fundamental difference from the "American style" as can be

Tim Shipman @shippersunbound
But now every man and his dog will try their luck in the courts and newspapers less gentle than mine will run the rule over those who sit in judgment and they will not like it one bit

Sean O'Neill @timesoneill
Every man and his dog can’t afford justice and the courts anymore thanks to all the legal aid cuts etc

David Allen Green @davidallengreen
That does not substantiate your initial claim

The UK supreme court has today passed the matter back to elected Westminster MPs

That is the very opposite of "American style Supreme Court" where Congress can and is overruled

Your tweet was incorrect

Tim Shipman @shippersunbound
It is a prediction. Let’s see

David Allen Green*@davidallengreen*
No, it was an inaccuracy

Your initial tweet did not convey what the UK supreme court actually did today

What happened was newsworthy - but it was v different to an "American style Supreme Court"

What did happen, far more interesting and significant

FWIW I think both are right.

I think Shipman is reflecting on the stated political goals of some of the hard right of the Tory party and how they will use the judgment for those goals, whilst Green is reflecting on the actual legal effect of the ruling and how the UK system currently differs.

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mineisawhiskeychaser · 24/09/2019 21:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 21:03

I'd expect her to stay under cover and only dismiss a PM if he goes as far as say sending the tanks around Pariament, or interning MPs and judges

Great!

When's that pencilled in for!?

That'll be late Feb, at this rate. As long as there's no snow on the ground.

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BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2019 21:08

Irishmonkk@castlvillageman*

The highest court of the disunited kinglydome has concluded that the porn minister has misled and can't be trusted.

Is this the same fella telling Ireland.

"you don't need an insurance policy, just trust me. ?

flouncyfanny · 24/09/2019 21:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.