Westministenders: Boris Johnson Broke The Law

[RedToothBrush]

ITS OFFICIAL
The Highest Court in the Land has ruled that Boris Johnson has broken the law.

Parliament is Sovereign.

Despite the calls for his resignation it is highly unlikely he will under the current political climate.

It must be stressed that the judgement was UNAMINOUS and went further than most expected, and took the hardest possible line again the government

The power now lies with the Speakers of the Lords and Commons to decide when Parliament reopens.

It also means that all the bills which were ended by proroguation are now back in play.

Expect a full backlash from the hard right attacking the courts are going full on 'enemies of the people'. This will be NASTY

The strength of this ruling does pretty much rule out another proroguation as the courts are liable to throw it out immediately if they try it on again.

Johnson is in New York. He needs to get on a plane very quickly.

I meant to say this earlier. Thanks to prettybird and the several others upthread who complimented me. I didn't post what I did fishing for compliments on here, I'm sure you know that, but they are nice to receive all the same.

Its simple IMO, if we don't have the rule of law, we can very, very quickly not have a functioning society and no one wants to go there!! That our PM obeys the law is a fundamental component of its power, if he doesn't, others can legitimately think "well, why should I then?"

Remember how quickly things turned nasty in the London riots in 2011? That's what happens if a sentiment takes hold (even among relatively few) that the law can be broken with impunity, and that's how fast it can happen.

The UKSC are (in this instance at least) the final arbiters of the law. There judgement must be followed. Judges should not be above criticism, but calling them Remain "stooges" or agents of the "deep state" is nonsense and worse, its dangerous.

^This

If we don't have the rule of law we have mob rule.

Our democracy rests on the rule of law. If we don't have it, we don't have democracy.

It seems to me that extreme leavers who believe that the referendum vote is the only thing that matters in democracy, actively are going closer to advocating mob rule as a form of democracy.

That's why I don't believe we can remain, not because of the threat of violence but because of the rising fallacies about democracy are being exploited, and this danger isn't being taken seriously enough.

It means that whilst violence might not be used, a future government could campaign on a platform which advocates 'the tyranny of majorities' as a democratic principle. Therefore minorities could be exposed in future to the creation of laws and enforcement of law which are unfair and/or go against their human rights.

Oh my god I can’t believe that papers showing Geoffrey Cox told the govt it was lawful have just been leaked!!

When you piss off the civil servants, this is liable to happen.

In other news, Kay Burley is looking like a drowned cat. There is a God.

Oh my god I can’t believe that papers showing Geoffrey Cox told the govt it was lawful have just been leaked!!

Quoi ?

Of course they were leaked. They are making cox the fall guy.

Has Dominic been busy again? Figures it's me or Geoff?

The Brexit supports on here who are adopting such a bullish tone, might want to consider that this exemplifies the words/actions of the PM and his advisors.....which is how we ended up with the Supreme Court being involved in the first place.

This ongoing rhetoric of a people's mandate and laying a failure to leave with remainers exemplifies the reductive arguments needed to support Brexit at all.

The need to avoid any scrutiny of the complexity of Brexit (by Parliament) abounds because the "details" really do matter and they are not conducive to a conclusion that Brexit is a good thing for the UK.

You want the referendum respected? Then in turn respect the result where it gave a mandate to Leave.

It did not give a mandate as to when or how.

It did not give a mandate to break the law or lie to the Monarch.

It did not give the Govt/PM sovereignty over Parliament.

Pourqoi? Parce que:

news.sky.com/story/exclusive-pm-was-advised-by-attorney-general-suspension-was-lawful-11818599

It means if a vote is called anyone who says will they will still back leave , wins.
Corbyn knows this .

"we quietly carry on trusting our Govenment to carry out the results of a vote as per their Election promises "

I'm trying to remember the last govt that actually carried out their manifesto promises !
Often those promises turn out to be impractical, or overtaken by events

In this case, the reason we haven't Brexited is that the Tories lost their majority in the 2017 GE
The voters decided this, not the courts or some sinister cabal

A minority govt is generally unable to get its policies through, unless it opens talks with the Opposition and negotiates a compromise with them

Unfortunately, May tried this far too late and BJ didn't even attempt it.
However, he is a proven liar, who doesn't respect normal Parliamentary conventions or even law, so the Opposition would never trust him anyway

They might just trust a different Tory PM, enough to sit down and see if they can agree on a compromise,
or at least an extension and a GE

it matters not what the courts say, it is how people see it ...

I have lived in a country that worked like this mummy.
You don't call the police when you are burgled or worse.
You pay the police to leave the scene of an accident even if you are the injured party.
You pay minimal taxes if any and bribe those you need to look the other way.
Tests, likewise can be paid for.
Employment law only functions in larger companies. Etc etc.
Countries without a functioning rule of law are not easy or safe to live in.

That's why I don't believe we can remain, not because of the threat of violence but because of the rising fallacies about democracy are being exploited, and this danger isn't being taken seriously enough.

And then you will have people like me - who cannot be alone - in resenting such a state of affairs that was bought with lies and corruption. And when I say resent I can't imagine myself dying content.

@DGRossetti I just meant what incredible timing to take heat off BJ...... how convenient for them.

Sorry, I’m a long time lurker, avid thread reader but almost never poster just popping up!

Dominic has got a group of voters who he runs things past Yes the good people of Esher who whilst they might be Conservatives voted almost 60% to remain. The Leave voters there are exactly the sort of affluent middle class traditional Tory voters who will look dimly on Boris’s contempt for our Institutions. Take a look on the various local forums....

This was the point I made on the last thread. This may well be a boost to Cunning Cumming’s cunning People versus the elite plan and play well with those who have been recruited to the wartime spirit of the true Brexiteer but in the golf clubs and WIs of the Home Counties and Shires which accounted for the majority of the Tory and Leave vote I am not so sure? A fair few of them will have even been judges. The more Boris goes full on populist, the more he may alienate the traditional Tory base.

I just meant what incredible timing to take heat off BJ...... how convenient for them.

This is starting to sound more and more like Watergate, where Tricky Dicky held to similar views on the people 'the silent majority' versus the courts.

And maybe BJ will emulate him and become a Cox-Sacker?

"anyone who says will they will still back leave , wins. Corbyn knows this ."

Nope
Both parties are split on Brexit;
The Tories have just decided to ignore their Remainer minority, whereas Labour are trying to keep their Leaver minority on board.

Corbyn knows that Labour have been hemorrhaging Remain votes to the LDems - and Remainers are 70% of the 2015 Labour voters

He also risks losing some Lexiters, hence his long balancing act which has pissed off both sides.

The Tories are the reverse:
If BJ extends or compromises on a deal, then he risks losing Tory Leavers - who are about 70% of Tory voters - the BXP,
while some of the Tory Remainers are being lost to the LDems - but he cba about them

Cox is toast now, wonder who else he’ll take down with him?

Laura Kuenssberg@bbclaurak
A member of the govt has told @BBCNews Johnson should resign in wake of the judgement - right now this view is not widespread in the Tory party, but mood is certainly v febrile - mood in No 10 is certainly stick to their guns

A member of govt... That's not a backbencher... That's someone in a government position so 'approved' by Johnson as being loyal.

to be a fly on the walls of no. 11

The Tories are the reverse: If BJ extends or compromises on a deal, then he risks losing Tory Leavers - who are about 70% of Tory voters - the BXP, while some of the Tory Remainers are being lost to the LDems - but he cba about them

It will be interesting to see how todays events play out amongst the "silent majority" of Tory supporters - the Bufton-Tuftons of this world who revere her majesty, and believe in law and order.

A member of govt... That's not a backbencher... That's someone in a government position so 'approved' by Johnson as being loyal.

The Saj ?

Actually grass's posts are quite reassuring and amusing: it's always a sign that the bots Brexiters are rattled when they start posting screeds of wordy shit.

It's also useful that he's posted so much absolute rubbish as I now know just to skim past his twaddle to the next considered and thought-through post (and that includes posts from Louise )

Saj. Gove. Auntie NiMo. Any number of others in that nest of snakes.

Is this a thinly veiled threat or a statement of disagreement?

Laura Kuenssberg@bbclaurak
1. No 10 source: “We think the Supreme Court is wrong and has made a serious mistake in extending its reach to these political matters."

2. Source goes on... "Further, the Supreme Court has made it clear that its reasons are connected to the Parliamentary disputes over, and timetable for, leaving the European Union. We think this is a further serious mistake. "

3. No 10 - "We think this is a further serious mistake. We will study the judgement carefully to consider how we can best respond in these unique circumstances. As always the government will respect the law and comply with the courts.”

Nick Robinson @bbcnickrobinson
What does it mean to say that you “respect” the top court in the country but then trash it’s judgement ?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/24/boris-johnson-may-renew-attempt-to-suspend-parliament?CMP=fbgu&utmmmedium=Social&utmsource=Facebook#Echobox=1569334554

Not sure if this has been posted- Johnson may try to re-suspend Parliament

It may well be someone who sees an opportunity to revive their leadership bid....