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Brexit

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner

984 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2019 19:35

One Opposition MP has just talked in parliament about how little the public understand what Preroguation is and what it meant. She described how one constituent thought it was about perogies.

The Benn Bill is now law and compels Johnson to ask for an extension if we have no deal.

Something that he has said he will die in a ditch to avoid and has suggested he would break the law.

But his options are hugely limited - if he refuses to do so and we no deal accidentally now, he is potentially personally liable for loses. He has no majority and the defeats keep on coming as a result.

Everything coming out now is the behaviour of a man with his back to the wall. The only thing he can do is frame everything as a people v the establishment and hope he survived until a GE. This is a dangerous time - he is now a rat in the corner with nothing to lose.

After Rudd's resignation, not much has got better for Johnson. Several other Tory MPs have signalled they won't stand again. This might mean they decide to rebel as they have nothing to lose. Lord Wellington, who has Tory written through him like a stick of rock, has also resigned the party. Attorney General Buckland hasn't resigned but has made threatening noises if the rule of law is broken.

Proroguation now does stack pressure on Johnson. He has to be the one to make moves and that is going to be difficult for him. However it also gives him time to say and do something without the scrutiny of parliament who have been blowing his arguments and legal assertions to bits with such ease.

Today he has visited Dublin where he stood next to Leo Varadkar who was less than polite nor even particularly diplomatic. The discomfort on Johnson's face and in his body language was very obvious. Varadkar in no uncertain terms said: ""if there is no deal, it will cause disruption for British and Irish people alike", adding "there's no such thing as a clean break, or just getting it done" and that he'd recieved no workable plan.

Tonight are two emergency debates. The first has just concluded about the government's lack of willingness to release documents relating to proroguation and operation yellowhammer.

Its been reported that ministers and civil servants have used private communications to conduct government ministers and this has caused huge concerns and Grieve wants to compel the government to release them. The government have responded saying this is an invasion of privacy. This has raised the accusation that Dominic Cummings personally has rifled through the phone messages of the former treasury communications officer as he sacked her and number 10 were not particularly concerned about her privacy then.

At the same time as the debate the government were briefing the press that they would refuse to comply with demands to release information. Grieve then made the point this was leading to the complete breakdown in trust in government.

David Allen Green said that if the government were to do this we could well be headed into a full blown constitutional crisis. This is the first time he's said he thinks we are actually at this stage.

Grieve was supported by the house by 311 votes to 302 votes ordering the government to release the documents.

The second debate is about the Rule of Law and the government's obligation to obey the Rule of Law.

Yet to come tonight is another vote about an early General Election before parliament pergoies, possibly in the early hours.

In other news John Bercow has decided to stand down at the next election or on the 31st October, which ever is sooner. There are rumours he was about to be deselected by his local conservative association and against convention would have to fight an election to win back his seat. He therefore was merely taking action before he was pushed. This might also be an action to protect parliament from the election of a new speaker after another election, fearing that there might be a hard right takeover which could threaten parliamentary soverignity.

Also this:
Declan Lawn @DecLawn
ERG stalwart Andrew Bridgen on @BBCPM saying the only way he could see a NI only backstop being acceptable is if it was put to an NI-only referendum. Fascinating.

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cherin · 10/09/2019 21:11

Guys, at the end, it might as well be “una fazza, una razza”....even if we don’t look too similar :-) Berlusconi made an election promise on the Messina bridge, too! Poor BJ, he wanted to sound futuristic and instead he copied the old trick of another old fartpolitician, from the SOUTH of the EU??? Grin

ListeningQuietly · 10/09/2019 21:12

Basil
USE that information to screenshot their ads so that those of us who loathe them get to see the lies they tell
(remember that Cummings game was to show different people different messages)

IrenetheQuaint · 10/09/2019 21:14

I have a shocking crush on Dmitry Grozoubinski. If I knew his address I'd post him a pair of my knickers.

Yes, this is what Brexit has done to me - made me fantasise about trade geeks :(

Thehouseintheforest · 10/09/2019 21:18

I am a civil servant.. this is how desperate they are :

My current grade is HEO... I earn £39000 . I work in an "enforcement "job" last Friday I was offered a Job at Grade 6 (£59-72k) to work for the department of health in an area I have NO KNOWLEDGE OF, No experience in... I said no. Not least because I have higher morals than a pay check ...

AutumnCrow · 10/09/2019 21:20

My DS is going into his final year of university during this prorogation, and was too young to vote in the Referendum.

I was a final year student during Thatcher.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 21:20

Those Labour seats in the North ....
Now all we need is for Cummings to piss off Farage aagin

Joey D'Urso@josephmdurso

Recent polls indicate that the north of England is significantly more pro-Remain than the south of England outside London

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner
Basilpots · 10/09/2019 21:21

Wink Listening good thought !!

Only things I look at on You tube are D.I.Y ‘how tos’ radiator bleeding, sink unblocking etc so it’s quite possible I have cunningly masked my real identity hence the badgering.

Interestingly last one was sponsored by The Sun.

Basilpots · 10/09/2019 21:24

Trade Geeks the new rockstars Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 21:30

Stewart Wood@StewartWood

An important point from Leo Varadkar at the end of his (quite brutal) remarks:

"Negotiating FTAs with the EU & US, & securing their ratification within 3 years, is going to be a Herculean task...

I think the manner in which you leave the EU will determine whether that is possible"

====
The UK in a Changing Europe@UKandEU
·
....#BrexitBulletin: "In summary, the Taoiseach was saying that a ‘no deal’ will have brought the UK back to the same place it is in now

– only with less negotiating leverage."

JeSuisPoulet · 10/09/2019 21:31

I just saw that too BCF! V interesting.

If we all look on the no deal preparedness gov.uk site and searched for yellowhammer, impact reports and medicine shortages - would that come back to them in data, IT folks?

Basilpots · 10/09/2019 21:32

Even Midlands was closer than you would expect off the top of my head was it one or two areas voted remain.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 21:35

Bcf

There are lots of people who live in northern cities. The NW in particular went v pro Europe in the EU elections compared with the last one (3 Bxt, 2 Lab, 2 LDs 1 Green in 2019 compared with 3ukip 3lab 2con in 2014. This was a bigger shift than other areas).

I have also seen a fair bit about how Labour supporters in the North have been some of the most likely to change their minds from leave to remain. This hasn't been talked about much.

Rest of the south includes Cornwall and Devon which were very very leave in the EU elections. It also has the Kent heartlands which have done well with Ukip for years.

That's also why Cummings is trying to court the North as he thinks it's soft and for plucking if he drives the class/north-south divide stuff.

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BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 21:35

Court: Are the rights of citizens in NI under the GFA legally enforceable ?

This case has been rumbling for years, now at the immigration tribunal

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/10/northern-ireland-citizens-must-register-to-identify-as-irish-tribunal-told

Fundamental questions over the enforceability of the 1998 Good Friday agreementt^ have been raised in a test case over the residency rights of an American who is married to a Derry woman.

Emma DeSouza found herself at the centre of a legal battle after her application in 2015 for a residence card for her US-born husband, Jake DeSouza, was rejected.

Any EU citizen living in the UK in accordance with EU regulations can bring their family with them.
But the Home Office initially turned down the application on the grounds that Emma DeSouza was British, even though she had never carried a British passport.

It said that as she was born in Northern Irelandd^, under the British Nationality Act 1981 she was automatically deemed British
and would have to apply through the normal routes for third-country citizens.
She could not therefore exercise separate EEA treaty rights.

prettybird · 10/09/2019 21:36

I think the difference is that while Scotland would prefer not have a hard land border with England (and would want to maintain some sort of CTA anyway, so it should be transparent for people), it a) is a price it would be prepared to pay and b) it wouldn't involve breaking an international peace treaty Sad. There quite simply isn't the toxic history behind it. Plus, because the border between Scotland and England is not the artificial construct that the border between Ireland and NI is Sad.

But anyway, there won't need to be a hard border Confused because the WM Government has promised the EU everyone that the technology already exists (or will in the very near future Hmm) so the backstop is not required. Grin They wouldn't lie to us, would they? Wink

JeSuisPoulet · 10/09/2019 21:37

Some good new from Guardian on cross party WA amendment plans www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/10/mps-look-to-bring-back-mays-brexit-deal-with-vote-on-referendum

JeSuisPoulet · 10/09/2019 21:39

I also imagine northerners are as fed up at seeing Brenda the 90yr old racist wheeled out for a nightly vox pop on the news. I think a lot of northerners feel they've been badly stereotyped.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 21:42

Brenda the 90yr old racist wheeled out for a nightly vox pop on the news

I thought Brenda was from Bristol....

gets coat

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MmeBufo · 10/09/2019 21:47

There was more to the Hercules quote:

“Securing the ratification in less than there years is going to be a Herculean task for you.

But we do want to be your friend, your ally, your Athena”

When Hercules went mad and killed his children , Athena stopped the disaster from getting worse .

Video here: twitter.com/john_mcgahon/status/1171016390607814656?s=21

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 21:48

Do Labour have a Brexit policy?

Robert Peston@peston
Very important breaking news. Which is that trade unions, in their TULO meeting with Jeremy Corbyn, have tonight endorsed the Labour leader's position that in a general election Labour should campaign for a referendum that would have a "credible leave option and remain" on the...

ballot paper. The reason this matters is that those senior members of the shadow cabinet, such as Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry, John McDonnell and Tom Watson, who want Labour to adopt an unambiguous remain position have been defeated. "It is important that voters who want to...

leave as well as those who want to remain can vote Labour. What we've rejected is the Trumpian no-deal position of Boris Johnson". I am told all the unions unanimously backed this position, and that it was not a Len McCluskey and Unite putsch. Watson, Thornberry and Starmer...

will be devastated, because they fear it will see large number of remain supporting Labour voters switching to support the LibDems and the Greens in the looming election. And it will probably delight Boris Johnson, who would expect to campaign against opposition parties with...

significantly differing degrees of commitment to reversing the result of the 2016 referendum. But Corbyn has consistently wanted to avoid alienating Labour supporting Brexiters. @jeremycorbyn @LenMcCluskey @tomwatson @KeirStarmer @EmilyThornberry @johnmcdonnellMP

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OublietteBravo · 10/09/2019 21:53

That seems quite sensible from labour. A referendum on WA (credible leave option) vs remain might actually break the current deadlock.

Basilpots · 10/09/2019 21:59

I understand their policy.

Won’t stop them getting shredder by the MSM.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 10/09/2019 22:00

A thread worth reading.

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner
RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 22:08

Andrew Hawkins @Andrew_comres
^New @ComRes voting intention poll for @Telegraph
Con30% (-1)
Lab29% (+2)
LD17% (-3)
Brex 13% (-)
Green 4% (+1)
SNP 3% (-)
UKIP 1% (-)
Other 2% (+1)
Fieldwork 6-8 Sept

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Motheroffourdragons · 10/09/2019 22:14

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 22:17

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/10/boris-johnson-still-ahead-in-the-polls-but-by-how-much

A crop of polls taken at the end of last week
– during which the prime minister was defeated in the Commons and lost the support of his own brother, Jo, -

left the Conservatives anywhere between three and 14 points ahead of Labour.

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner
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