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Brexit

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner

984 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2019 19:35

One Opposition MP has just talked in parliament about how little the public understand what Preroguation is and what it meant. She described how one constituent thought it was about perogies.

The Benn Bill is now law and compels Johnson to ask for an extension if we have no deal.

Something that he has said he will die in a ditch to avoid and has suggested he would break the law.

But his options are hugely limited - if he refuses to do so and we no deal accidentally now, he is potentially personally liable for loses. He has no majority and the defeats keep on coming as a result.

Everything coming out now is the behaviour of a man with his back to the wall. The only thing he can do is frame everything as a people v the establishment and hope he survived until a GE. This is a dangerous time - he is now a rat in the corner with nothing to lose.

After Rudd's resignation, not much has got better for Johnson. Several other Tory MPs have signalled they won't stand again. This might mean they decide to rebel as they have nothing to lose. Lord Wellington, who has Tory written through him like a stick of rock, has also resigned the party. Attorney General Buckland hasn't resigned but has made threatening noises if the rule of law is broken.

Proroguation now does stack pressure on Johnson. He has to be the one to make moves and that is going to be difficult for him. However it also gives him time to say and do something without the scrutiny of parliament who have been blowing his arguments and legal assertions to bits with such ease.

Today he has visited Dublin where he stood next to Leo Varadkar who was less than polite nor even particularly diplomatic. The discomfort on Johnson's face and in his body language was very obvious. Varadkar in no uncertain terms said: ""if there is no deal, it will cause disruption for British and Irish people alike", adding "there's no such thing as a clean break, or just getting it done" and that he'd recieved no workable plan.

Tonight are two emergency debates. The first has just concluded about the government's lack of willingness to release documents relating to proroguation and operation yellowhammer.

Its been reported that ministers and civil servants have used private communications to conduct government ministers and this has caused huge concerns and Grieve wants to compel the government to release them. The government have responded saying this is an invasion of privacy. This has raised the accusation that Dominic Cummings personally has rifled through the phone messages of the former treasury communications officer as he sacked her and number 10 were not particularly concerned about her privacy then.

At the same time as the debate the government were briefing the press that they would refuse to comply with demands to release information. Grieve then made the point this was leading to the complete breakdown in trust in government.

David Allen Green said that if the government were to do this we could well be headed into a full blown constitutional crisis. This is the first time he's said he thinks we are actually at this stage.

Grieve was supported by the house by 311 votes to 302 votes ordering the government to release the documents.

The second debate is about the Rule of Law and the government's obligation to obey the Rule of Law.

Yet to come tonight is another vote about an early General Election before parliament pergoies, possibly in the early hours.

In other news John Bercow has decided to stand down at the next election or on the 31st October, which ever is sooner. There are rumours he was about to be deselected by his local conservative association and against convention would have to fight an election to win back his seat. He therefore was merely taking action before he was pushed. This might also be an action to protect parliament from the election of a new speaker after another election, fearing that there might be a hard right takeover which could threaten parliamentary soverignity.

Also this:
Declan Lawn @DecLawn
ERG stalwart Andrew Bridgen on @BBCPM saying the only way he could see a NI only backstop being acceptable is if it was put to an NI-only referendum. Fascinating.

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AdaHopper · 10/09/2019 15:13

Has this been posted already?

£4650 for 3 months. Shock

www.emergencyfoodstorage.co.uk/products/3-months-family-emergency-food-pack-fuel-your-preparation

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner
BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 15:16

Faisal Islam@faisalislam

Understand that some visiting delegations have indeed been told in Brussels that NI-only backstop could be produced “overnight” has backing of EU27,* Parliament, Commission*

- while clearly does not have Unionist support, many NI biz groups have backed it...u

pumkinspicetime · 10/09/2019 15:17

Re Swinson and her ability to retain her seat:

I've also got family in her constituency 👋
And have heard that she is pretty well thought of as a constituency MP.
Personally I'm hoping she remains one.

bellinisurge · 10/09/2019 15:21

@AdaHopper no need to waste money on "specialist " bags or boxes. Absolute rip off.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 15:23

Alex Wickham@alexwickham
New from @alexGspence:

Boris Johnson has ordered Whitehall to use the govt’s public internet service to gather “targeted and personalised information” from voters

Dominic Cummings emailed senior staff saying the instruction was “TOP PRIORITY”

www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/boris-johnson-dominic-cummings-voter-data
Boris Johnson Secretly Asked For A Massive Amount Of User Data To Be Tracked. Dominic Cummings Said It's "TOP PRIORITY".
Leaked documents show the prime minister's chief adviser emailed senior officials instructing them: "We must get this stuff finalised ASAP".

Boris Johnson has secretly ordered the Cabinet Office to turn the government's public internet service into a platform for "targeted and personalised information" to be gathered in the run-up to Brexit, BuzzFeed News has learned.

In a move that has alarmed Whitehall officials, the prime minister has instructed departments to share data they collect about usage of the GOV.UK portal so that it can feed into preparations for leaving the European Union at the end of next month

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Halfeatentoast · 10/09/2019 15:23

In "Brexit: behind closed doors" I remember a bit where they started to say towards the end that the Remainers were becoming as problematic because they weren't helping move things along (Verhofstadt maybe said it?). Euorpe doesn't want us to leave but ultimately they don't care because its not up to them. They see that we need to help ourselves by negotiating properly. This means working with each other HERE as much as there. I'm a remainer but this made me realise Europe are getting pissed off with ALL of us. They WANT to work with us but can't because we're just running around in circles.

AdaHopper · 10/09/2019 15:25

@bellinisurge - isn't it just! I can't believe the UK has got to a point where companies can rip people off with emergency food. It is utter madness.

I was just going to say that perhaps this is a company that normally caters to people in hurricane-sensitive areas. But then I saw they have a Brexit box: www.emergencyfoodstorage.co.uk/products/brexit-box

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 15:25

BTW, tracking your data for 'national security reasons' doesn't necessarily breech your rights. But its probably one that would end up in court. After the fact of course.

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BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 15:26

red That's blatant
it will be downloaded and used by the Tories for the GE

Bad enough using FB data, but data the govt collects from us ?

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 15:31

"targeted and personalised information" sounds like the Leave using FB data in the ref to target individual voters

This time, they control the govt, so they have govt data too - they'll download it to Tory HQ
Could work even more effectively in the GE than in the ref

Remember Tricky DIcky started targetting opponents for tax audits ?
< well, ok, most here are not that old Blush >
That could happen here too

And for voters - benefit checks, prove you are British checks .... ?
All over the next few years, to keep the people under control

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 15:33

Orban in Hungary uses govt data to help his party and to control the population

Cummings has copied that trick v quickly

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 15:34

Of course if the rule of law means nothing then neither does the HRA or the ECHR. They don't even need to abolish / leave.

I bet this was the stuff Cummings said would make people melt.

Proper authoritarianism.

You can't avoid the portal. The portal of doom.

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RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 15:35

What did DGR say about signing petitions and the government having a list?

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BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 15:39

'EU's preparations for no-deal are done'

Von der Leyen, the incoming EU Commission president, who will replace Jean-Claude Juncker on 1 November

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 15:40

Well, that's 6 million enemies to target from the biggest petition

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 15:43

Hungary is a manageable problem within the EU

The UK pulling this dictatorial shit wouldn't be
They'll want us to go and stay out until we are securely back to democracy again

They must be praying hard the WA gets passed and that they dont have to consider an extension

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 15:44

Peter Foster@pmdfoster
Twitter: is this GDPR compliant? Am I right to presume so?

And post-#Brexit, is that the sort of thing that cd be used against UK when it is assess for data compliance as a third (non-EU) country? Already tricky given that that will take in security services?

Jonas Bontemps @jonasbontemps
Basically, the government has a free card by declaring data to be in the public interest. It is legal. Chapter 2, article 6.

It will only by proven once tested in a court of law, like most of the GDPR. We had a case I worked on with advice of two law firms. This was their point of view.

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner
Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner
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DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 15:45

What did DGR say about signing petitions and the government having a list?

Surely that was obvious to all ?

Just wait until they start cross referencing that list to generate lists of benefit claimants to suddenly "review" (for example). And passports to "lose".

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 15:47

Now if parliament was in session, the opposition would be able to raise an Urgent Question about this story.

But because its not, they can't.

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RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 15:51

Surely that was obvious to all ?

I think you were the only one who raised it. I do remember cos I worried about it for similar reasons.

I think there was a disbelief that it could never happen, if my memory isn't playing tricks on me.

Go check the thread (if you can find it). It'd be interesting to see what was said at the time tbh.

These thread now become an incite into how we decline in earnest, I fear.

Of course if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear...

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DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 15:53

So presumably there will be EU citizen data being hoovered up too ? Doesn't bode well for any post-Brexit deal with the EU, does it ?

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 15:54

Yep

Maybe after Brexit, the Rebel Alliance should keep refusing a GE, to let the effects sink in for months
BUT
pass bills to stop all this shit and to publish all the wrongdoing

Meantime, only court cases can help - but will need a lot of crowd-funding to tackle the govt on so many fronts

That's another tactic - the govt can just outspend the opposition

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 15:58

You can purge Lib Dem voters from the electoral role with that data...

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RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 15:59

It doesn't bode well at all for future DGR.

Wait til we get our Great British Firewall.

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DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 16:06

Maybe after Brexit, the Rebel Alliance should keep refusing a GE, to let the effects sink in for months

Let's start small ? This isn't a government project after all.

  1. Stop no-deal
  2. secure extension, or pass WA

seems snappy and do-able, and might attract some wavering Tories.

beyond that you're going to hit the "anything but Corbyn barrier". Unless the parties are having talks as we speak and have shelved partisan politics for the sake of trying to form a consensus and a leader that is acceptable to all without it seeming to "diss" magic Grandpa. Which is a test of where he wants us to be too. I'd rather the drowning child was saved by my mortal enemy if they were better placed, than try and do it myself with a risk of failure. But that's probably the reason why I'm not the leader of a political party.

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