The Brexit Arms

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Hold the line Brexiters!!

Nearly there...

Only 53 days to go!

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versus the average layperson who let’s be honest does not on the whole know all the facts

So the average layperson is ignorant? Who can honestly say they knew all the facts and researched for; hours, days, weeks, months or even years between the 2015 election result and the referendum in 2016 what the outcome of a leave vote might be?

@mummmy2017

Me too. It forces the EU to make a move and say why they have made such move.

The Chess endgame at its finest.

Researching for weeks or even months does not make you the equivalent of someone who's actually worked in the field.

Why use such stupid hyperbolic language like ‘Stockholm syndrome’ and ‘in cahoots with our masters’ - it just lays bare how uninformed you are and inflames emotions even more.

Old, and now irrelevant, argument

No it is not, those reasons in 2016 have evaporated and if we are to move this forward, then Leave should be winning Remainers over.

I find it odd that the only reason given now is we must honour the result of the referendum, is that it?

What’s wrong with BINO?

There is no such thing as BINO. That's just ERG speak to impose their fanatical puritanic version of brexit.
Staying in the Single Market and customs union IS STILL BREXIT if it means disengaging from the political aspects of the EU and guarantees no further integration.

They want to destroy everything in order to plunder the uk and let their mates plunder it too. It is disgusting.

So the average layperson is ignorant?

Yes.

I’m generally interested in what happens if the EU refuses to grant an extension? Which they genuinely could do, I’m sure when we had the last extension they mentioned they would not allow another.

Nice try but the Benn Act getting Royal Assent today is specific in relation to an extension

The bill does not oblige the EU to grant an extension was the point being made. A long post, but fails to recognize that UK law passed internally does not flow into EU law and Article 50 remains the same which does not say a member can't leave.

The Benny Hill Act would be a more appropriate name as it is funny, but nothing else.

If the EU won’t grant an extension and there is no agreement, it would be the disaster of a no deal. I don’t think they will refuse when we get to the 11th hour as the EU want to protect its members and a no deal is in no ones best interest. The EU aren’t going to throw the ROI under a bus.

Malicious compliance.
Boris to have gotten to be PM is clever.
He can send extension letter as required, but the EU can see nothing is available to change the truth, there is no way at forward.
Why bother with an extension, your so wrapped up in getting your own way by any means you don't see how it plays out the the world.
Whinny brats throwing their toys out of the pram. Stamping their feet demanding their own way, thinking they are a massive group when really they are not.

The Benn Bill doesn’t force the EU to grant the extension but stops Johnson signing up for a no deal.

Researching for weeks or even months does not make you the equivalent of someone who's actually worked in the field

So only those that work in the field can vote?

Thought that it was the peasants that voted leave and they are the ones who do work in fields are they not?

The EU are a massive group - they are 27 , the UK is one. The EU don’t want a no deal - why would anyone?

The Benn Bill doesn’t force the EU to grant the extension but stops Johnson signing up for a no deal

Contradictory. No deal happens by default. There is no signing to be done. If UK does not have a deal by 31 Oct 2019 then UK leaves without a deal. This is already cast in law.

All the Benny Hill Act is doing is to prevent Johnson from not requesting an extension. However, the Benny Hill Act bill does not force the EU to agree to an extension.

So the average layperson is ignorant?

Of course. And they people who think they aren't are the most ignorant as they don't even have that much insight.

He can send extension letter as required, but the EU can see nothing is available to change the truth, there is no way at forward

He said he would rather be "Dead in a ditch" than ask the EU for an extension, no mention of any 2nd letter.
Or is this just another Johnson theatrical statement with no substance?

Whinny brats throwing their toys out of the pram. Stamping their feet demanding their own way, thinking they are a massive group when really they are not

Yes i agree, brexitiers should face reality.

He has only 2 options... Resign or break the law.

What a responsible PM would do is ask for the required extension for the purposes of another vote, be that a GE or PV.

Actually I know a lot of people in my personal life want to have a no deal, many various reasons too. This is a wide range of people too, from business owners to retired old men.
Me personally, I just want the whole shambles to be over anyway possible.

The EU are a massive group - they are 27 , the UK is one. The EU don’t want a no deal - why would anyone

Article 50 was signed by all 28 EU members. Article 50 does not state that a member can only leave if the other 27 members are happy.

Article 50 can be invoked without the leaving party giving a reason. Shame really.

Are the people who would prefer no deal to no Brexit actually thinking rationally?

Haven't they read the countless impartial reports that forecast fall in employment, recession, impossibility of medicinals to reach the uk, loss of EU workers in essential services, danger or unrest in NI etc. Peer reviewed articles, reports, studies, they all agree that the impact on the uk would be disastrous.

Haven't the people who support no deal understood that 'no Deal' means no withdrawal agreement, not any kind of trade deal, a crash exit that would truly destroy the livelihood of people, and put large groups (uk citizens in EU and EU citizens in uk) in a precarious position?

Haven't you got friends, relatives, spouses, acquaintances that are going to be affected by this heartless 'no deal' policy? How can you live with yourself?

If Boris decides to break the law, what sanction could be imposed on him? It's not a criminal law. It doesn't apply to everybody in the country, only to the person holding the post of PM.

If it's not a criminal law, my understanding - I'm not a lawyer but happy to be enlightened by someone who is - then neither imprisonment nor the levying of a fine can be imposed.

So what would be the penalty? Genuine question.

Of course. And they people who think they aren't are the most ignorant as they don't even have that much insight

So UK has to go back to the Victorian era when only the privileged could vote and have a say ?

What a responsible PM would do is ask for the required extension for the purposes of another vote, be that a GE or PV

PV has been ruled out by Parliament.

GE was offered, but opposition parties have opposed.

Hence reasons EU could award an extension have been removed by parliament and by the remainers in particular. Without realizing it the remain supporters are making no deal the most likely outcome.

Oh, and this is a great take on the whole thing:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/09/brexit-a-few-tiny-things-stand-between-remainaggedon-and-the-uk-bravely-leaving-the-eu?utmterm=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0ZpcnN0RG9nT25UaGVNb29uLTE5MDkwOQ%3D%3D&utmmsource=esp&utmmedium=Email&utmmcampaign=FirstDogOnTheMoon&CMP=firstdog_email

Opposition parties did not oppose a general election. They opposed one before 31 October. You wilfully can't see the difference.