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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Rule of Law

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 08/09/2019 14:16

We enter week 2 of what might be considered 'the end game'.

The Conservative Party has made it clear that liberals are not welcome in their ranks. It has become the Brexit Party.

Farage is talking of a pact, though Javid has said no. What would Javid know though, he's only in the Cabinet.

Amber Rudd has resigned. She will run as an independent in an unnamed constituency at the next election. The assumption must therefore be she has been talking to a few people this week about this, though whether that means she is a 'One Nation Tory' independent candidate or simply an independent isn't clear.

Some think that her departure will deal Johnson yet another blow at the polls. Others think as the cabinet members with the worst satisfaction rating amongst tory party members this will be viewed positively by leavers and give Johnson a bounce in the polls.

It been reported that Cummings has overruled Johnson on at least key decisions this week which raises the question of who is in charge and running the show.

Cummings has promised to make us all melt in the coming weeks as he takes a sledge hammer to constitutional convention. He's advised no 10 staff to be 'cool like Fonzies'. A reference to pulp fiction and to happy days. As some have commented if you think about Cummings as some one who has watched too much Tarantino it does make him make a lot more sense.

There are suggestions that Johnson will break the rule of law in refusing to ask for an extension and the No10 have a trick up their sleeve over loopholes. The most obvious thing here being to offer the EU a deal they can't possibly refuse agree too to smear them and to then make it impossible for the EU to agree to an extension which noises out of France seem to suggest anyway.

Tomorrow is going to be interesting...

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BigChocFrenzy · 08/09/2019 20:31

Finally, an SO demanding Yellowhammer be published

Apileofballyhoo · 08/09/2019 20:32

I know that post above said the CCA can't be used except in an emergency, but what if an emergency is created?

And what could Boris Johnson/Cummings do with it? What powers does it grant?

RedToothBrush · 08/09/2019 20:33

And in the Tory Party echo chamber

Alex Wickham @alexwickham
NEW: Leaked WhatsApps reveal Tory MPs are urging Boris Johnson to break the law to deliver Brexit

Read the messages here >>
www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/tory-mps-urge-boris-johnson-break-law?__twitter_impression=true
Leaked WhatsApps Reveal Some Tory MPs Are Urging Boris Johnson To Break The Law To Deliver Brexit
Two Conservative MPs backed the prime minister to ignore new legislation blocking no-deal. The justice secretary had to warn them the government "observes the rule of law at all times".

The extraordinary conversation took place in the Conservative MPs WhatsApp group this weekend

It started with Iain Duncan Smith who wrote: "The government has the right to demand that we do not hand over power to Parliament to tie the PM's hands"

Kevin Hollinrake replied: "Government has the right to ignore legislation?"

Brexiteer Sheryll Murray: "I hope so 👍🏻"

She was backed up by fellow Brexiteer and home affairs select committee member Chris Green

Brexiteer MPs then had to be warned by justice secretary Robert Buckland: "For anyone who has any doubt, this Government, like its predecessors, observes the rule of law at all times and for all seasons."

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BigChocFrenzy · 08/09/2019 20:33

After "Nick", Exaro looked pretty silly

Apileofballyhoo · 08/09/2019 20:33

Finally, an SO demanding Yellowhammer be published yes yes

RedToothBrush · 08/09/2019 20:36

but what if an emergency is created?

I don't think one has to be created as such. What if extinction rebellion cause trouble so this is used as an opportunity?

Having to argue x isn't an emergency in court is problematic - purely because it takes time.

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BigChocFrenzy · 08/09/2019 20:38

ballyhoo CCA - Civil Contingencies Act 2004

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/36/contents

22 Scope of emergency regulations

(1) Emergency regulations may make any provision which the person making the regulations is satisfied is appropriate for the purpose of preventing, controlling or mitigating an aspect or effect of the emergency in respect of which the regulations are made.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/36/contents

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jan/07/politics.terrorism

the [then Labour] government has tightened its definition of an "emergency" to make clear
the new powers cannot be triggered by an event which merely threatens the "political, administrative or economic stability" of the country.
< so only to ensure the distribution of essential supplies - food, meds, power - not afaik, JIT components >
...
The bill will confer sweeping authority on ministers to do almost anything that once an emergency has been declared.
...
"The powers available to the government and state agencies would be truly draconian

Cities could be sealed off,
travel bans introduced
all phones cut off,
and websites shut down.
Demonstrations could be banned
and the news media be made subject to censorship.
New offences against the state could be "created" by government decree.

Basilpots · 08/09/2019 20:38

Re WhatsApp group love to know what it is called Grin

More Tory propaganda for the masses.

flouncyfanny · 08/09/2019 20:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/09/2019 20:41

so only e.g. to ensure the distribution of essential supplies

RedToothBrush · 08/09/2019 20:43

And wtf is going on with #grabbag all over twitter today?

Example

Police Scotland control room @polscotcontrol
September is preparedness month. Emergencies can happen at any time and it’s recommended to have a #GrabBag ready containing essential items including medication, copies of important documents, food/water, torch, radio and other personal items #30Days30WaysUK #BePrepared

Lots of police force's doing it.

Westminstenders: The Rule of Law
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flouncyfanny · 08/09/2019 20:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BackInTime · 08/09/2019 20:45

Finally, an SO demanding Yellowhammer be published

Absolutely, Yellowhammer can double up as the Tory party manifesto Grin

flouncyfanny · 08/09/2019 20:48

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chomalungma · 08/09/2019 20:49

If they do implement the CCA, then there sure as hell will be repercussions even if we do Brexit.

It could well by a Pyrrhic victory...

BigChocFrenzy · 08/09/2019 20:54

Finland currently hold the rotating Presidency of EUCO
(BJ gave them our proxy vote when he withdrew the UK from all EU meetings)

newsnowfinland.fi/politics/prime-minister-rinne-no-deal-brexit-very-obvious

Finnish Prime Minister Antti Rinnene^ *(SDP) says he thinks it’s now “very obvious” that Britain will crash out of the European Union without a deal.

Speaking at a joint press conference in Helsinki with the President of the European Parliament David Sassolii*, Rinne told reporters that
“the situation in Britain is quite a mess now.”

“We don’t know what is happening there.

It seems very obvious that we are not getting Brexit with an agreement,
and we have here in Finland and also at the European Union level done work that we can manage that kind of situation.”

OublietteBravo · 08/09/2019 20:56

@cherin - I’ve obviously been taking a slightly different tack to preserving my garden produce. I’ve got quite a bit of plum vodka and rhubarb gin in my stockpile.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/09/2019 20:57

flouncy Wink & anyone else planning their Grab Bag:

Take bars of CHOCOLATE

It's food
It helps mood
It can be used for barter if all else fails

flouncyfanny · 08/09/2019 21:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 08/09/2019 21:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 08/09/2019 21:10

Pierre Briancon @pierrebi
"We are not going to do (extend) this every three months."

Mujtabi Rahman @mij_europe
French position is much more nuanced than this. Short thread, based on chats. Back to Paris tomorrow - will update if wildly different (doubtful) 1/

.@EmmanuelMacron is not scared of no deal. He still believes that this has gone on much too long; that the #Brexit debate threatens to derail his own agenda for EU if it drags on through 2020; that it is democratically unsound to want to block or reverse Brexit 2/

that any outcome in which UK remains in EU would now have more downsides than upsides (UK as sullen member; danger that other European nationalists will see the failure of Brexit as a Euro-elite plot; UK’s likely opposition to his ambitions on industrial/defence policy) 3/

Nonetheless, he's a little more relaxed about granting another A50 extension in Oct than he was in April. There is no longer the European election campaign to worry about. He believes he was right & others were wrong at the Council in April, which puts him in stronger position 4/

but also allows him to be magnanimous/flexible. He doesn’t want to undermine his own growing position of strength & influence in EU by annoying the others again & standing alone. Thus he will certainly be on the team which is reluctant to extend but will, once again, go along 5/

with majority view if it’s in favour of another delay (it will be). The problem will be “extend for what?” And how long? He and other EU leaders have always said they would allow more time for an election &/or 2nd referendum so there’s likely to be ready-made reason this time 6/

But Macron (& others) will be wary of seeming to be part of/in cahoots with so called Rebel Alliance in Commons. One French official: “There seems to be a view among the anti-Johnson forces in the UK that we approve of what they’re doing. But they’re also part of problem 7/

They can always say what they don’t want but never what they DO want. It’s like a cat that brings a half-dead mouse into your kitchen and looks at you as if to say ‘aren’t I clever?’ Well, we don’t necessarily want that mouse. Where does it take us?” 8/

On EU negotiations with @BorisJohnson, Macron was ready to take him at his word about wanting a serious negotiation after Elysee visit last month. Macron didn’t want to be branded as the wrecker of a deal. He wanted to - & did - call Johnson’s bluff 9/

He thought that there was room for some changes in WA (with Ireland’s blessing) that would have the same effect (no hard border/integrity of SM) but get Johnson off the semantic hook of rejecting anything called a “backstop” 10/

French view now seems to be that Johnson has failed to follow up on original Berlin/Paris/Biarritz offer of concrete ideas; that what's been put forward fails two tests above. There’s still a lingering belief that Johnson may shift before end of October 11/

After all, a deal with EU27 is now his easiest way out – only way out? - of the double-bind (no No-Deal; no early election) created by UK Rebel Alliance. But there is NO question of EU27 moving as far as Johnson seems to have assumed they would ENDS

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chomalungma · 08/09/2019 21:14

Anyone remember that talk about 30 days and cracking on with an agreement?

Seems ages ago. All that talk of the EU shifting their position....

cherin · 08/09/2019 21:21

@OublietteBravo Slivoviza! (Plum schnapps) darn it! I didn’t think about it! I made about 10 jars of plum jam and nothing alcoholic....good thing I’m almost teetotal (albeit a small cup of slivoviza every now and then....)
Not sure it’s wise to combine alcohol and driving away, don’t forget (n’oublie pas) that it’s one or the other at any given time!

When we discovered the car without the catalytic, we wondered for a day if it’d make sense to repair it, or to scrap it and...buy a third-hand European drive Iveco to drive south in case of Armageddon! Then we told ourselves we were being irrational. Now I’m not so sure....

NotaRealLawyer · 08/09/2019 21:21
Shock Just. Wow.