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Brexit

Westministenders: Is Boris going to give us one ?

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 09:50

A General Election that is

Well, only when Corbyn lets him, not when BJ wants it.
So far as PM, BJ has lost 4 votes to zero wins - which is a record

BJ has been spraying around promises of billions in spending,
like a tomcat drunk on catnip, spraying the Magic Money Tree

SPADs have been forbidden to take holiday before 31 October
and of course that coup / prorogue to force No Deal and wank off the authoritarian vote

The prorogue also robs him of 5 more weeks time in which he could have forced a GE.
Whoops

BJ / Cum would ideally want a GE right after Brexit
to have achieved their No Deal, maximise their votes from the Faragist
.... all before the No Deal chickens come home to roost

Of course, as PM, BJ - or is Cummings the real PM ? - could change any pre-Brexit date that the naive think they have agreed

The Rebel Alliance have options to stop him:

BJ has sacked 21 MPs, so if the Alliance unite, they outnumber Con+DUP
Another Whoops
However, they have different aims and find it difficult to compromise
Some might prefer No Deal rather than the bogeyman Corbyn, because they don't do compromise

They could use a VoNC to replace BJ by Corbyn,
who would then ask for an extension and call a GE before Brexit
Stopping No Deal that way depends on Corbyn winning the GE - a HUGE gamble

Maybe he can use the slogan
"Brexit is the Tory project to make you forget the other Tory project: Austerity"

while to appeal to some pp, the Tories can use
"Vote to protect the bonuses of rich bankers"

Or if nothing happens by 19 October, MPs can vote for the WA, which would definitely stop No Deal
But that would require the HoC to make a decision - and it has spent several months avoiding that

Tick tock, No Deal is coming

Meanwhile, talks are ongoing for a Tory-Brexit party pact.
Reportedly, the hedge-fund donors won't fund a Tory GE campaign unless there is a pact:

www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/revealed-election-pact-between-johnson-and-farage-edges-closer/

How much money does it take to buy the UK governing party ? 🤔

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BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 19:49

Hey, bear is a serious poster, much as I disagree with them
We are debating, hopefully not boring too many Blush

There are some other posters who are just ploppers, if you mean certain others ....

Especially the one whose grammar suddenly changed from native English to 1 post that had Central / East European sentence structure

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BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 19:51

OK, bear Our audience is giving us the slow handclap.
Let's leave this particular debate

OP posts:
Bearbehind · 07/09/2019 19:51

It's about resolving it with the least damage possible to the economy and to the social / political fabric of the country

It is, but there’s no mechanism for that now

I’m going to leave you all to your Remain echo chamber where you all talk about how things would be so different if only people did what you want them to.

Only they chose not to 3 years ago and at some point you have to deal with that or create a situation to change it

Ohflippineck · 07/09/2019 19:52

Bearbehind

That photo is scary. Add to it the photo of him flanked by police cadets, a la Trump, and it’s not too hard to figure out which horse he’s hitching his wagon to. Gawd help us all.

Hoooo · 07/09/2019 19:52

Agree bcf

I've said many times that the WA will pass now TM is gone.

There are many reasons why I believe this and sadly one of those reasons (much as I loathe TM) is the ingrained misogyny of the tory party.

The HofC will vote for TMs WA. It's the only deal that can stop no deal.

And that's when the work of actually leaving the EU begins..

I still think the WA is shit, but it's not economic suicide (at least not immediately.....)

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 19:53

Jenni Russell@jennirsl (The Times)

The greatest flaw in Cummings’ strategy may be Boris Johnson’s character.

The PM who loves to be loved has been shellshocked by conflict this week;
defeated, humiliated, rambling.

His brother’s shock resignation, I’m told, left him in tears.
But he’s chained to Cummings’ plan.

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Bearbehind · 07/09/2019 19:53

Hey, bear is a serious poster, much as I disagree with them

Thanks BCF

Like I say, I’ll leave it there - if the lurkers, who don’t actually engage normally, don’t like my challenges, I’ll go elsewhere! 😂

JustAnotherPoster00 · 07/09/2019 19:54

despite BCF's great OP, because of the tedious bickering

This

It’s why I’ve shut up don’t want to add to the bickering and all my defence of Corbyn has done is stopped our usual reasoned debates and sharing of information that all of us find beyond useful

Driedlimes · 07/09/2019 19:55

I'm one of those new posters - def not a troll though. I have been following since the threads started but never dared to join in. Now so overwhelmed by events that I decided to go for it.

Mind you I agree with what appears to be the growing consensus on here. WA so the boil is lanced/try to retain SM/CU & focus on defeating the threat of the far right. Makes sense to me.

Peregrina · 07/09/2019 19:56

Only they chose not to 3 years ago and at some point you have to deal with that or create a situation to change it

Only some of the population chose, and if we weren't so wedded to a first past the post political system a more competent or astute leader would have recognised that and said - the vote is close, and then possibly asked both sides to go away to commission the research on the various options. But appeasing the ERG was the main priority, and now the Tory party is largely the ERG and people who haven't got the guts to stand up and say, that no, this is not good for my constituents or the country.

Hazardtired · 07/09/2019 19:56

I've been scared to have a POV all day Grin

Hoooo · 07/09/2019 19:56

Don't go bear!

It'll be going quiet again soon its late in moscow

flouncyfanny · 07/09/2019 19:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hoooo · 07/09/2019 20:00

Bojo in tears at his brothers resignation?

Well, boo fucking hoo.

But I agree. Cummings didn't realise how much bojo needs to be loved. He has looked shell shocked and out of his depth all week.

Even channelling Trump (photo op in front of police officers) backfired on him.

Perhaps we aren't as doomed as we think? 😊❤

Peregrina · 07/09/2019 20:00

Add to it the photo of him flanked by police cadets, a la Trump, and it’s not too hard to figure out which horse he’s hitching his wagon to. Gawd help us all.

If Johnson tries that stunt again, it only needs a Chief Police Officer to stand somewhere prominent that his Officers can see him and give them a signal to start marching off. In fact, I would love to see that - Boris de Pfeffel de pfelling on, and suddenly realising there was movement behind him.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 20:00

NYT: The ‘Political Anarchist’ Behind Britain’s Chaos

Interesting analysis from the USA

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/07/opinion/sunday/dominic-cummings-brexit.html#click=t.co/IvgsTugQIy" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/07/opinion/sunday/dominic-cummings-brexit.html#click=t.co/IvgsTugQIy

Dominic Cummings, Boris Johnson’s Rasputin, is happy to watch the country blow up if he gets what he wants.
.....
Mr. Cummings proved that stories and lies, allied to strategic cunning, conviction, secrecy, ruthlessness and upending convention, could be much more appealing than reason and fact.

Years of studying and writing obsessively about the art of strategy, the failings of most institutions and the success of revolutionary thinkers like Otto von Bismarck had paid off.
....
Now this single-minded insurgent is the most powerful individual in the British government, vaulted into Downing Street as Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s chief strategic adviser.

His job is to deliver Brexit and win Mr. Johnson five years more in office,
making up for the prime minister’s deficiencies as a lazy, inattentive bumbler.

Mr. Cummings is deploying all the techniques that have worked for him before: disruption, deception, intimidation and an implacable willingness to alienate people.
....
Incensed and appalled members of Parliament are watching their party morph before their eyes into a hard-line vehicle for the most intransigent, right-wing Brexiteers,
in which centrists and Remainers are welcome so long as they shut up and do as they are told.

A senior party figure told me, with classic English understatement, that this is “a ghastly mess.”
“I’m not sure that Boris read the small print of the Cummings plan
— this is the ultimate proof that one is a charlatan and the other a psychopath,”

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OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 07/09/2019 20:01

peregrina absolutely. Also the absolute cockiness that they ignored the Lords advice on the four nations votes and a threshold. Angry sorry, preaching to the converted here

Hoooo · 07/09/2019 20:01

X post peregrina! 😊

flouncyfanny · 07/09/2019 20:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hoooo · 07/09/2019 20:02

flouncy 🤣🤣🤣🤣

QueenOfThorns · 07/09/2019 20:03

BCF, you mentioned the Tories standing on a ‘no deal’ platform in a GE. Are you sure? Hasn’t the strategy been to go for a no deal, but claim to be after a deal, so the ensuing mess can be blamed on someone else? Have they openly changed their stated plan now? Do you think that they don’t care about being associated with the consequences of a no deal because they’re confident of staying in power for 5 years afterwards, whatever happens?
It seems to me that they have no choice because the Brexit Party won’t play with them unless they go for no deal. It could be a bit different if the Yellowhammer documents get released in full - with that info in the public domain, could any party actively pursue that course?

bellinisurge · 07/09/2019 20:03

@smilethoyourheartisbreaking , I've heard I'd (natch - its a prepper thingGrin). I don't think it will come to that.

Hasenstein · 07/09/2019 20:04

Peregrina

" In fact, I would love to see that - Boris de Pfeffel de pfelling on, and suddenly realising there was movement behind him."

Oh, that would be so wonderful, a moment worthy of Hollywood.

Mind you, if a young police officer fainting didn't stop him, he'd probably just carry on pfeffeling (which I'm definitely going to nick!).

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 20:05

"Yet one of the weakest links in this plan is the character of the leader, the man whom Mr. Cummings is using as the vehicle for his destructive strategy.
If Mr. Cummings’s plan is to divide the Conservative Party from the inside out, Boris Johnson is his co-conspirator as his careless, indolent host.

But the person who has been left utterly shellshocked by events is Mr. Johnson himself.

Where Mr. Cummings is a steely ideologue, Mr. Johnson doesn’t enjoy conflict;
he wants power accompanied by endless applause.

He never expected to have to expel senior members of his party;
he expected them to be won over by his charm.

He was humiliated by the scorn heaped on him in Parliament on Tuesday, where he was nervous and out of his depth.

On Thursday came the most damning condemnation: His brother Jo Johnson, a moderate, resigned from the governmentt_, accusing Boris of damaging the national interest

This was such a blow that sources close to the prime minister tell me that he cried when he heard the news.

The speech he gave a couple of hours later, originally planned as the kickoff of an election campaign, was a delayed, confused and extraordinarily rambling mess."

< this explains that car crash of a speech >

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Peregrina · 07/09/2019 20:05

His brother’s shock resignation, I’m told, left him in tears.

Where's the small violin emoticon when we need it?

I will save my tears for those whom this shitty government has driven to homelessness, or suicide, or just making life one long daily grind. We should be doing better than that; we should be demanding better.