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Brexit

Westministenders: Is Boris going to give us one ?

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 09:50

A General Election that is

Well, only when Corbyn lets him, not when BJ wants it.
So far as PM, BJ has lost 4 votes to zero wins - which is a record

BJ has been spraying around promises of billions in spending,
like a tomcat drunk on catnip, spraying the Magic Money Tree

SPADs have been forbidden to take holiday before 31 October
and of course that coup / prorogue to force No Deal and wank off the authoritarian vote

The prorogue also robs him of 5 more weeks time in which he could have forced a GE.
Whoops

BJ / Cum would ideally want a GE right after Brexit
to have achieved their No Deal, maximise their votes from the Faragist
.... all before the No Deal chickens come home to roost

Of course, as PM, BJ - or is Cummings the real PM ? - could change any pre-Brexit date that the naive think they have agreed

The Rebel Alliance have options to stop him:

BJ has sacked 21 MPs, so if the Alliance unite, they outnumber Con+DUP
Another Whoops
However, they have different aims and find it difficult to compromise
Some might prefer No Deal rather than the bogeyman Corbyn, because they don't do compromise

They could use a VoNC to replace BJ by Corbyn,
who would then ask for an extension and call a GE before Brexit
Stopping No Deal that way depends on Corbyn winning the GE - a HUGE gamble

Maybe he can use the slogan
"Brexit is the Tory project to make you forget the other Tory project: Austerity"

while to appeal to some pp, the Tories can use
"Vote to protect the bonuses of rich bankers"

Or if nothing happens by 19 October, MPs can vote for the WA, which would definitely stop No Deal
But that would require the HoC to make a decision - and it has spent several months avoiding that

Tick tock, No Deal is coming

Meanwhile, talks are ongoing for a Tory-Brexit party pact.
Reportedly, the hedge-fund donors won't fund a Tory GE campaign unless there is a pact:

www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/revealed-election-pact-between-johnson-and-farage-edges-closer/

How much money does it take to buy the UK governing party ? 🤔

OP posts:
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flouncyfanny · 07/09/2019 19:23

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flouncyfanny · 07/09/2019 19:25

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Bearbehind · 07/09/2019 19:28

Wasn’t one of the straplines from the 2017 GE that 80% of the voting population voted for Leave supporting parties.

That’s why Labour has to offer a counter to the Tory mess, or the limbo continues.

JeSuisPoulet · 07/09/2019 19:29

I don't think I've seen anyone posting this article about the dark money from US trying to overthrow our electoral laws? Makes a lot of sense considering all of the precedents we are setting.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 07/09/2019 19:30

I think it may be time

Westministenders: Is Boris  going to give us one ?
Bearbehind · 07/09/2019 19:32

If you want proof of the US influence - who else holds his fingers like this

Westministenders: Is Boris  going to give us one ?
Alsohuman · 07/09/2019 19:32

I knew Max Hastings didn’t rate Johnson but this ..

amp.ft.com/content/b6571af0-d003-11e9-99a4-b5ded7a7fe3f?__twitter_impression=true

Apileofballyhoo · 07/09/2019 19:33

The fact it’s not compatible with stopping FOM which is the priority for most Leavers.

Bear a Customs Union is compatible with stopping FOM. A Single Market isn't. Please don't be irresponsible by mixing up the two.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 19:34

"I still don’t believe a NI only backstop will go through"

Well, with the Tories now being a minority govt of about -45, the C&S arrangement with the 10 DUP MPs is no longer important

Arlene phoned up May to stop the original NI backstop
BJ doesn't need to take any DUP phone calls

He doesn't give a damn about NI, Brexit or anything else except himself

That's not because he's a Tory or a Leaver - he's actually very unusual in any party for lacking any political ideals
He could just as easily supported Remain in the ref, but he decided leave gave him a better chance of becoing PM

If it is in his interest to go for an NI-only backstop, in order for the UK to be able to make any FTAs it wants, then he'll do so
He also knows that the US Congress is likely to demand this too, before they pass any FTA
Trump probably won't risk angering the Irish-American vote in his 2020 Election Campaign either
Hence, many in the ERG will be open to the NI-only backstop too

Squeaky bum time at DUP HQ

  • they were big supporters of Brexit because they thought it would enable them to dump the GFA they always opposed and hence slow down the inevitable move over the decades towards a United Ireland

Whoops.
Whatever the Brexit outcome, polls show the whole debacle has helped reduce Unionist support and probably speeded up a United Ireland

OP posts:
flouncyfanny · 07/09/2019 19:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JeSuisPoulet · 07/09/2019 19:35

Bear yes the 80% of voters line was trotted out...by the Tories, not Labour. I wonder why Hmm

Bearbehind · 07/09/2019 19:37

a Customs Union is compatible with stopping FOM. A Single Market isn't. Please don't be irresponsible by mixing up the two.

And please tell me where Corbyn has differentiated between the 2 and said he wants to leave the SM in order to still stop FOM?

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 19:37

Any compromise to bring the country together can't just be about giving some Leavers their preferred form of Brexit

It's has to be what majority of the whole country would accept

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Bearbehind · 07/09/2019 19:39

Any compromise to bring the country together can't just be about giving some Leavers their preferred form of Brexit

BCF I understand the sentiment, what I don’t understand is where you think the opportunity to do this comes from

SirChing · 07/09/2019 19:39

De-lurking to agree with NoWordForFluffy: this thread is hugely childish today. The long standing posters on this thread tend to avoid personal insults, avoid sounding like petulant 12 year old's, and take the views of others into consideration.

Some of the newer, albeit prolific, posters clearly don't possess these skills and the threads are poorer for them. Its a real shame.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 07/09/2019 19:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 19:41

bear In a GE, voters can choose between the Tories, who would presumably have No Deal in their manifesto, hence no FOM

vs Labour who would prioritise jobs over FOM

Why demand that both parties promise to end FOM ?
If voters don't want FOM at any price, then they don't have to vote Labour

The 48% obviously were prepared to accept it to keep EU benefits and so would some of the 52%
Voters need a choice of Brexits, not just No Deal or No Deal

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Rhubarbisevil · 07/09/2019 19:43

I agree - I haven’t bothered to read these latest posts. The analytical critical thinking intelligent conversation seems to have been muted somewhat.

Bearbehind · 07/09/2019 19:44

I assume that was aimed at me sirching

I apologise if I’ve disappointed you but I’ve tried very hard to avoid any personal insults.

I’m just challenging the point of the Remain view that believes it is us who has to compromise when Leavers show no sign of doing so.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 19:44

bear because as I keep repeating,
add the 48% who accept FOM and at least some of the 52% who would also accept it
and that gives a majority, probably a sizeable one over No Deal

If you are demanding that 80% of the population will be happy - that's not going to happen
Brexit is a clusterfuck
It's about resolving it with the least damage possible to the economy and to the social / political fabric of the country,

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Bearbehind · 07/09/2019 19:46

Why demand that both parties promise to end FOM ?

I’m doing the opposite.

I’m saying that Labour should state that ending FOM isn’t compatible with their other aims.

Basilpots · 07/09/2019 19:46

Some of the newer, albeit prolific, posters clearly don't possess these skills and the threads are poorer for them. Its a real shame.

Sadly I think that’s the idea.

Tedious.

Hopefully normal service will resume soon.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 19:47

bear Remain is not a compromise, much as I would love it
A soft form of Leave is

and Leaver are not an amorphous bunch who voted to keep out immigrants
so some of them would compromise too

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borntobequiet · 07/09/2019 19:47

I recommended these threads to someone today but I don't think I'll send them a link to this one, despite BCF's great OP, because of the tedious bickering. Never mind, there will be another one along pretty soon.

Hoooo · 07/09/2019 19:48

Lots of (ahem) new posters recently...

do not feed the trolls

(On the upside, people are obv rattled 😀)

Swipe left for the next trending thread